Advice for English speaker, struggling to learn French.

[elsmandino]

Hello,

I would be really grateful for some advice on how best to learn French.

I had lessons at secondary school for about three years (though I did not pay much attention - what a wasted opportunity), which was over 25 years ago and I have been giving it another go for the past year or so.

I am aware that my progress is rather slow and am not sure if it is:

1. Due to my being not naturally gifted with languagues; or

2. My learning learning structure is no good; or

3. I am underestimating the amount of time it takes to become proficient at a language.

My time is a bit limited so, at the moment, I have to study during my work lunch break - which consists of the following:

Half an hour working through Duolingo and then half an hour reading articles on these two sites:

https://www.1jour1actu.com/

and

https://savoirs.rfi.fr/en/apprendre-enseigner

I also try to find a spare few minutes to watch Learn French with Alexa on Youtube.

Is this a good use of my time or could there be improvements from my using better resources?

Any tips/advice would be very much appreciated.

Merci!

[Mohave]

Welcome Elsmandino!

I also took French in high school and in college, and then promptly did nothing with the language for many years - in my case almost 30 years. When I initially started re-learning French, I think I spun my wheels the first few months as I didn't use solid resources. After finding this forum, I started using Assimil and Pimsleur which made a big difference in my progress. I am now able to read adult literature in French and travel/have conversations in French. Pimsleur can be expensive so check to see if your library has it available. A Pimsleur and/or Assimil lesson could be done during your lunch period. I particularly like to use Pimsleur when I drive or do household chores. Also, I recommend taking a look at the many wonderful logs in this forum - you will see the "inchstones" of people who are learning a language.

Best of Luck!

[zenmonkey]

Half an hour a day is pretty good. Progress is slow, this is normal, do the work and trust the process.

So, from the material you are using, you aren't being particularly productive (writing or speaking) and some of your effort may be more effective working on that.

In your post there is some negative thinking (the three points) - try to address that, instead:

1. I'm working consistently
2. I have a method, maybe I can effectively improve it?
3. Whatever the amount of time it takes to become proficient at a language, I'm in for the long-haul.

What do you consider the areas you want to work on most?

[iguanamon]

To reinforce the previous good advice, in order to learn a language on one's own, a learner needs to make a commitment to do so and then follow through with it. To learn a language on one's own, a learner needs to make a commitment to do so and then follow through with it. Learning a language takes time, effort and patience. It also takes consistency and persistence. Being consistent with whatever you do will win the game for you in language-learning. Being persistent will keep you in the game until you can be consistent again.

With a big language, like French a plethora of resources exist. Mohave has provided a good, practical program to follow. That being said, Assimil is not for everyone. Neither is Pimsleur, but they work well together for many people and are complementary. They provide synergy in learning. The main thing is to be committed to whatever course of study you plan to follow and try to be consistent and persistent. Your skills will build over time. Most people can learn a second language on their own without being "particularly talented" in languages. Part of the reason why many folks think they aren't "particularly talented" in languages is because of their experience in school being taught them in a language class. We don't do that very well in the English-speaking world. I agree with Mohave, there is a lot of good advice and examples of successful members to follow here. Bonne chance!

[elsmandino]

Thank you, both, very much for your responses.

Whilst I have heard a lot about Pimsleur, I have heard considerably less about Assimil - lots of reviews seem to suggest that it is the best course out there?

So you think that a structured course, like this, might be key, rather than random sources where I sort of dip in and out?

I did hear that there are lots of really good (and free) podcasts out there but, as always, there are so many that you can spend more time sifting through them all, rather than actually learning French.

I think zenmonkey picked up on something pretty important - my post is a bit negative, isn't it?

It can be a bit demoralising to think you have learnt lots of French words and phrases, only to try and read a child's book and have to immediately reach for the dictionary.

I find that watching the French news is particularly bad - I know that the subjects are often highbrow and they speak quite quickly, but I almost start thinking that I must be listening to another Romance language.

I think a change in tact will boost morale on the language learning front.

In terms of what to focus on, I think that my listening skills really are the poorest.

When I read articles from the sources I have mentioned above, I pretty much understand a great majority but if I listen to an audio source, I struggle to pick up more than a few words.

I am not sure whether this is because I happen to be better at reading than listening or whether listening is a more difficult skill - with a written sentence, you have time to re-read words but with the spoken word, it is instantly gone.

[eido]

I waffled a bit on what to focus on, but in the end I chose a weaker skill and just stuck with it. This ended up being listening. I didn't like the podcasts because I either couldn't understand them, or didn't like what they talked about. So I went with one of my favorite TV shows for listening practice. It's still painful to get through, but I have improved a bit. I say pick something you enjoy. This could be a learner podcast, or it could be a documentary. Listen to it intensively so you get the meaning - so you learn about the topic as well as the language. Keep watching or listening every day, for however long the episode is. You might have to include time for repeats if you choose to follow my recommendation of intensive listening. This could add up to 20 minutes more to your routine, but it's worth it to understand.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I did a combination of Assimil and Clozemaster in the beginning, which worked well for me. I also listened to Le Journal in Francais Facile daily. I would put down the dictionary, stop trying to understand everything, and focus on soaking up French through comprehensible input.

[Lawyer&Mom]

Here is an excerpt from my blog summarizing how I progressed in passive French:

“So after a year and a half-(ish), I am officially an intermediate in passive French. B1 on Dialang listening, B2 Dialang reading.

How did I get here? Years of language geekery, first seven chapters FIA, top 1,500 words on Memrise, Assimil (passive), one season House of Cards, two seasons Temoinages, four seasons ER, about 350 episodes of Journal en Francais Facile, four novels and 16,533 sentences in Clozemaster. Plus Zoolander.”

Trust me, I didn’t understand much of that first season of House of Cards. I just dove in and new that understanding would come. Eventually. Somewhere around the second season of ER.

[garyb]

Welcome!

I agree with the recommendations for proper courses over Duolingo. I have mixed feelings about Pimsleur: depending on how much you already know it might feel too slow or it might be perfect for revising basics and filling in gaps, and depending on how good your ear is it might help your pronunciation or might harm it or might be neutral for it. Assimil is good, and IMO is best suited to false beginners (probably your case) or those who've already done a basic course. In your situation I'd pick a course, prioritise that in your half hour or hour per day, then use Duo and the other sites you mentioned to reinforce what you're learning with any extra time you have left over or can fit in during other moments of the day.

[Ani]

I wouldn't say Assimil is the best course out there but it does have a devoted fan base and a lot of strengths. The best course is one that fits your goals and you enjoy enough to stick with it. There may be several"best courses" for you over your language learning journey.

I think your process sounds good, except perhaps that the crummy TTS voice of Duolingo is hindering your listening and speaking. Still, you'll finish Duolingo eventually and can always work on listening/pronunciation separately. My only question would be whether you enjoy it.

Personally, I'd substitute the news articles for a book at this point, preferably with a pop up dictionary. You'd need a reading app like Kindle for that feature. If you want to go that way, many people start with kids books like Petit Nicholas or Harry Potter, but a translated Dan Brown or a work by the popular French author Guillaume Musso might be just as suitable.

I didn't think your fist post sounded negative and I think the answer is probably #3 with a touch of #2, and none at all of #1. If you can understand most of a news article it sounds like you're making fantastic progress for only an hour a day. You'll see even faster progress if you can find a way to double that by listening on your commute, in the shower or reading before bed.

Welcome to the forum