CEFR Exams in North America? - is it useful?

[drp9341]

Hello everyone!

The only "born and bred" American I've personally met, (who still lives in the USA,) who was aware of what the CEFR scale even was, completed a masters in Italian Literature, in Italy, and lived in Italy for 7 years.
I am sure that Americans / Canadians familiar with these forums and involved in the "Polyglot Community" know about these scales, but it seems that in general, C2 means nothing.
I love the CEFR testing system, it is a great way to measure progress in terms of how well you "know" the language - although it's ability to measure your ability to function in said language is another story - and I want to start taking CEFR exams this year.
However, I am hesitant. A part of me says, "take the A2 exam and tell them that "I got an A+2!, that means I'm perfectly fluent."

Americans, my Canadian brethren, and my hermanos/irmãos south of the Rio Grande, what has been your professional experience regarding CEFR exams, and how have they affected you professionally? Has having a C2 certificate benefitted / affected you?

One Polish girl I know who is a "sworn translator" keeps telling me to take the sworn translation exam next year instead of the CEFR exams, since that looks way better internationally. However, I love the CEFR exams, and would love to collect as many C2 certificates as possible (without turning into a complete shut-in, my only human contact being via Skype, with language partners.)

Thanks guys!

Funny Side Note / story about American High School (skip if you want!): I told a doctor the other day that I read the book I saw on her desk, and she started trying to discuss it with me, and when I told her I read it in Spanish, she was extremely confused, and said, "but your last name is Italian?." She's a very smart woman, with a wealth of real life as well as professional experience. Unfortunately, in my experience, most Americans who "learn a second language" start when they're 11, take it in college, then teach.
I remember in high school, my Salvadorian friends would always laugh at the Spanish teachers when they would come talk to them at lunch. They would tell them "This gringo speaks better than you, let him teach." (Yes they called me a gringo, but we had a very twisted and racist sense of humor in those days; "ball busting" was an integral part of our friendship.) Supposedly out of like the 6 Spanish teachers, only 1 spoke better than me, and this was after 2 years of elementary level classes, and 6 months of self study - although I did drive the Salvadorians to and from school for the better part of a year, but only if they spoke only in Spanish. They knew if spoke English, they would have to walk the rest of the way, as I would pull over and tell them to get out. ---- Good Times! Sorry for the reminiscing! (end of side note)

[aokoye]

I'll start by saying that, as a caveat I a. have very little work experience, b. what work experience that I have in which I've used my German was a research assistantship and the person I was working for already knew that I spoke German well, and c. I'm only speaking for the US.

I don't think that for most people CEFR exams are going to be especially important because ACTFL doesn't use that system nor does the US Government. Additionally it's much harder to take exams that grade on that scale in the US as a whole than it is in much of Europe, which makes a lot of sense. In addition most textbooks sold in the US don't use the CEFR scale because they're not being sold to a European market and most are published in the US by one of three or four publishers.

From what I can tell, the more popular Japanese textbooks for the college market are based on JLPT standards (though you'd have to read the intro to their textbooks to figure that out as opposed to just looking at the cover), but the ones that I'm familiar with are published in Japan so that makes sense. Outside of that most publishers in the US use ACTFL's scale, including the Vista Higher Learning, McGraw Hill, and Cengage Learning.

In terms of the sworn translator exam, I'm assuming your talking about the American Translation Association exam? Either way I think what comes up with that is that translating is a skill that is separate from knowing how to read and write a language. I think there's an assumption, and probably a well founded one, that if you were able to pass the ATA exam, you have a high proficiency in the languages you were tested in. I think that is probably far easier for people to grasp than any scale because it is a "you passed or you failed" sort of thing as opposed to a gradation of levels.

I honestly think the issue of, "was a C2 certificate useful" is pretty different than the plight of language education in the US. Even if we had an amazing system of educating children and young adults in second and foreign languages, there would still be the issue of "I know what IRL and/or ACTFL equates to but I don't know what the CEFR is." Note, I personally prefer the CEFR scale for languages spoken in Europe, and I like the "I can" goals in general.

[eido]

Unfortunately, in my experience, most Americans who "learn a second language" start when they're 11, take it in college, then teach.

I mean, I started when I was fourteen, but...
Ah, this makes me rethink my idea of becoming a Spanish teacher. I don't want to look a fool.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I am an American familiar with CEFR scales, but I majored in a European language and I studied in Europe. I don’t think I’m representative.

[Xenops]

Unfortunately, in my experience, most Americans who "learn a second language" start when they're 11, take it in college, then teach.

I mean, I started when I was fourteen, but...
Ah, this makes me rethink my idea of becoming a Spanish teacher. I don't want to look a fool.

Aww, My favorites teachers in high school were my Spanish teachers. I don't see why you can't be a Spanish teacher.

[eido]

Aww, My favorites teachers in high school were my Spanish teachers. I don't see why you can't be a Spanish teacher.

I was trying to say that I don't speak it to a good level now and it would require a lot of money to get up to C2. I was recommended by someone the other day to spend a year abroad or a few months at a language school, and I simply can't take off time from work to get fluent. I have to do it almost in an @iguanamon way: work through bare bones resources and get used to the language. What I think OP was trying to imply was the teachers sucked at Spanish, and I want to be an expert and good with language acquisition theory so kids stick with the language or others throughout their lifetime. I just don't think I'll get there with my gringo accent and other factors. I appreciate the support, though.

[aokoye]

Unfortunately, in my experience, most Americans who "learn a second language" start when they're 11, take it in college, then teach.

I mean, I started when I was fourteen, but...
Ah, this makes me rethink my idea of becoming a Spanish teacher. I don't want to look a fool.

All the more impetus to try to further improve your Spanish no? I know - it is so easy to say that
More seriously, look up the phrase "undoing native speaker privilege" (but with the quotes between native and privilege and add on teaching to that). I've come across a number of talks and abstracts about it. And before anyone tries to reply with something related to social justice (and whether or not social justice is good or bad), that's not what this is about despite the use of the word "privilege".

[Speakeasy]

As a partial response to the OP’s original question, I would note that immigration to Canada is based on a “points system” wherein points are awarded for tested linguistic skill in either of the country’s two official languages, English and French, and that the CEFR scale is the reference system used for evaluation. Please refer to the image below (ouch! "0" points for B1!). Beyond that, I have no idea to what extent the CEFR system is used in the country’s educational system and elsewhere.

Canada Visa Language Evaluation on CEFR Scale.PNG

[eido]

All the more impetus to try to further improve your Spanish no? I know - it is so easy to say that
More seriously, look up the phrase "undoing native speaker privilege" (but with the quotes between native and privilege and add on teaching to that). I've come across a number of talks and abstracts about it. And before anyone tries to reply with something related to social justice (and whether or not social justice is good or bad), that's not what this is about despite the use of the word "privilege".

It actually isn't. Ah, I guess I'll just stick with IT. I can't do things on a time crunch or without one. Maybe I hate Spanish after all.
Hmm, do you mean like privilege I have with me speaking English? Or the privilege Spanish-speakers have over me... I read a guy's blog once that said he wanted to see more Korean native speakers proficient in English teaching it to their Korean students because the native English speakers didn't understand jack about Korean and made the English classes awkward for all the students and the co-teachers who had worked so hard to learn another language to help others. The 'politics' around it are very complex, and I don't mind complex - I just want to know how to deal with it.

[aokoye]

All the more impetus to try to further improve your Spanish no? I know - it is so easy to say that
More seriously, look up the phrase "undoing native speaker privilege" (but with the quotes between native and privilege and add on teaching to that). I've come across a number of talks and abstracts about it. And before anyone tries to reply with something related to social justice (and whether or not social justice is good or bad), that's not what this is about despite the use of the word "privilege".

It actually isn't. Ah, I guess I'll just stick with IT. I can't do things on a time crunch or without one. Maybe I hate Spanish after all.
Hmm, do you mean like privilege I have with me speaking English? Or the privilege Spanish-speakers have over me... I read a guy's blog once that said he wanted to see more Korean native speakers proficient in English teaching it to their Korean students because the native English speakers didn't understand jack about Korean and made the English classes awkward for all the students and the co-teachers who had worked so hard to learn another language to help others. The 'politics' around it are very complex, and I don't mind complex - I just want to know how to deal with it.

No, I know that further improving your Spanish, or any language really, is easier said than done. That was my point in the first line. By native-speaker privilege what I mean is the phenomenon whereby native speakers of X language are thought of as better teachers of that language than people who speak it as a second language (L2). This is regardless of whether or not they actually are better teachers - remember there is more to teaching a language than how well you speak it. We see this in things like student preference (as in the profile of a teacher that students and/or parents want have as their teacher/their child's teacher regardless of their past experiences), how much teachers from specific countries get paid compared to teachers from other countries, and in hiring practices.

From what I can tell most of the writing that's being done about this has been within the TEFL/TESL sphere but it's been talked about in relation to teachers of languages other than English as well. It appears to be being discussed more now than it ever has been but I found an article by Kramsch from 1997 that was published in the Modern Language Association journal that appears to be trying to disprove it (I need to actually read it to be sure of that).
If I get a chance this evening or tomorrow I'll link to some abstracts.