Taking naps to improve studying efficiency

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:21 pm
Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
x 7032
Contact:

Re: taking naps

Postby zenmonkey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:38 am

I like naps but I rarely take them except for a weekend nap here and there.

One thing that I'd check, aside from other medical issues, is sleep apnea.
Get checked for that, if you can.
0 x
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4781
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 15001

Re: taking naps

Postby Iversen » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 pm

I read several articles about Polyphasic Sleep a few years ago (while I was still writing at HTLAL), and as far as I remember it was not something you should experiment with. The main problem is that it takes time to get 'down' to the deeper sleep stages, so you won't reach those levels if you replace one long night of sleep with a series short naps. I vaguely remember research reports that showed a steady decline in mental capacity and well-being by test persons who tried to follow a polyphasic sleep regime.

On the other hand a nap or two in the middle of the day is probably a good idea - if you have surroundings that accept it (and people with fixed working hours rarely have that). Btw: in Danish the name for a nap in the middle of the day is "en morfar", i.e. a mother's father, which suggest that sleeping in the middle of the day mainly is a privilege for elderly retired people.

In spite of having retired a few years ago I haven't instutionalized my mother's fathers. When I have been thinking (or working) hard I like to lie down a few minutes to relax, but I rarely fall asleep.
3 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4978
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17658

Re: taking naps

Postby Cavesa » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:15 pm

kanewai wrote:The twenty-minute caffeine-nap is amazing. I wish I could convince my union to make this part of our work contract. I find that I can nap up to forty minutes and still wake up feeling good. If I nap any longer than I'm actually more groggy and out of it than before.

Thanks for the recommendation! I think it is definitely worth trying to introduce in my routine.
..........
As for checking hormones, apneas... I've been checked for lots of stuff. And I already have a diagnose that covers the sleep problems. I am followed and treated properly, that is not the issue. It is simply not solvable in the forseeable future, it is steadily improving, and likely to improve a lot, perhaps near the norm one day. But it is simply impossible to make any plans with it. And I cannot postpone my life forever.

I cannot wait till various stuff out of my control changes and my brain gets used to it. I need to function now. I need to be highly productive now. I need to become in a much better student starting from now. I need to start succeeding much more. If I don't, than my whole potential will be lost and never used just because I happened to have a health issue at the time when it is the least tolerated by the society:the youth.
.............
garyb wrote:I Then I come back home and get back into the routine and struggle despite following the guidelines as much as I can (things like separating sleep space from living space and having a completely dark room can indeed be difficult when living in a small rented flat). My sleep has improved recently along with my general mental health but it's still not great.

I do often hear that the fact of thinking too much about sleep and sticking too rigidly to all the advice can become part of the problem in itself: you place so much importance on sleep and make so many sacrifices (evening productivity, social life, etc.) that you become anxious about it, and as soon as you're in bed and struggling to sleep you just feel more frustrated and it keeps the vicious circle going. ...

My main issue with short naps is that it often takes me an hour or more to fall asleep, so in 20 minutes I'm not getting any real rest. That said, I don't think the point of a short nap is necessarily to have "proper" sleep; just taking a break is beneficial in itself, and a few minutes in the hypnagogic state (the "half-asleep" phase) can give a definite boost.,

This sounds very true, thank you!
..............
Iversen wrote:I read several articles about Polyphasic Sleep a few years ago (while I was still writing at HTLAL), and as far as I remember it was not something you should experiment with. The main problem is that it takes time to get 'down' to the deeper sleep stages, so you won't reach those levels if you replace one long night of sleep with a series short naps. I vaguely remember research reports that showed a steady decline in mental capacity and well-being by test persons who tried to follow a polyphasic sleep regime.

On the other hand a nap or two in the middle of the day is probably a good idea - if you have surroundings that accept it (and people with fixed working hours rarely have that). Btw: in Danish the name for a nap in the middle of the day is "en morfar", i.e. a mother's father, which suggest that sleeping in the middle of the day mainly is a privilege for elderly retired people.

In spite of having retired a few years ago I haven't instutionalized my mother's fathers. When I have been thinking (or working) hard I like to lie down a few minutes to relax, but I rarely fall asleep.


Thank you for the warning. It is very useful to know what to avoid trying, thank you. I have actually read a bit about this and it looked nice at first sight, so I am glad to find a more educated opinion than mine.

I have a few symptoms not too different from those typical for much older people now and I was told it was normal, considering the exhaustion (it's that state, when young people try so hard to remember the details for the next medicine exam we start forgetting the basic words or struggle with orientation in time and space). And I have already got the experience with an illness including long term fatigue unfortunately (that's how I know I don't have that now), so I definitely don't feel any guilt about "being too young for this" :-)

Now that I think of it, I remember a few medical students (both in France and here), who were actually enjoying some rest (not sure whether really asleep or for how long) after coming home in the afternoon, exhausted, and knowing they needed to study for several more hours that day. I should have asked about their routine in much more detail!

I am not retired but I have the awesome luxury of just having to study right now (heh, sounds easy, doesn't it). I don't have to break that with going to school (the tempo of going to school early, staying focused for hours, and then studying till the night, that's a hell invented by someone really evil. The students of easier degrees get more free weeks for studying and they don't need to either spend so much time at school or to spend so much of it in books out of the sacred "exam time"). I don't have to work, even though I hope to find something not too disturbing to do and earn at least a bit.

The goals now are (ordered by priority) :
1.To study much more productively and really get more from the time spent on every task I do
2.to be able to put in more hours (which would also mean finally making regular space for the stuff my languages require)
3.to stay above the total exhaustion point and possibly feel better. My routine needs to be sustainable.
4.to test any new routine out safely during the summer and then stick to it despite the university and other obligations till the end of 2018, and intensify it for the first half of 2019

What will that routine look like, that's the question. And I think the coffee+nap method could help me achieve that.
0 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4978
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17658

Re: taking naps

Postby Cavesa » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:19 pm

I think I have gathered a lot of info but I'll be grateful for anyone else sharing their experience. Especially Kanewai has encouraged me a lot!
I have also been gathering info through the proper channels. But here I could ask about the affects of this on studying and get some real cases (and warnings), which always helps.

So, it is time for the first experiment.

I passed an exam today and have holidays till Sunday. I have to start studying again. So next week, I am gonna try this out and see how it works out.
0 x

User avatar
Systematiker
Blue Belt
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 6:09 pm
Languages: ENG (N); DEU (C2+) // SWG (~C1); BAR (~C1); SPA (4/3); FRA (~C1); SCO (~C1); NLD (~B2*); LAT (Latinum Bavaricum); GRC (Graecum Bavaricum); CAT (~B2*); POR (~B2*); SWE (~B2*); HBO (Hebraicum); DAN (~B1*); RUS (~A2); KOR (~A1); FAS (still a raw beginner)
*Averaged for high receptive skill
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7332
x 2071

Re: Taking naps to improve studying efficiency

Postby Systematiker » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:57 pm

I've done polyphasic sleep before - there's a huge decline in your ability to do everything (and your quality of life) for about six weeks until you adjust, and it's super hard to maintain. It gave me a lot more time in the day, and my acuity came back, but I'd not recommend it for you because of the side effect I had - vivid, often lucid, dreams. Any period including lucid dreams leaves me more tired than when I went to sleep, so I rarely instigate it.

I do 30-min-maximum naps sometimes, usually without feeling groggy, but any longer and I enter REM and I'm toast for the rest of the day. I feel about as revitalized from a 30-minute lie-down while listening to an audiobook and dozing in and out (just still need an alarm in case!). These are usually coupled with caffeine, but I've never consciously aimed at drinking coffee before rather than after.

I have bad sleep inertia pretty much every morning, but I've also noticed that it dissipates within 15 minutes if I am around 6-7 hours of sleep. If I sleep longer, I'm just as tired, but I feel that way all day. I'd love to sleep more, it just ruins everything, and if I force myself up, I'm not tired the rest of the day. I can also do about a week at around 4-5 hours, but have to have a balance day or it all comes crashing down.

Between physical activity and habit, I can fall asleep within five minutes of thinking about sleep - used to be because I was always tired, and slept more, and got more tired, now it's maintaining physical exertion daily.
4 x

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4781
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 15001

Re: Taking naps to improve studying efficiency

Postby Iversen » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:28 pm

Actually the lucid dreams could be a sign that the border between your wakeful state and your sleep periods becomes fuzzy, and then they should be a warning sign. On the other hand I have also regularly lucid dreams and I find them entertaining and would like to have more of them, but I experience them near the end of a long night's sleep. There is a difference between those two situations.
2 x

AndyMeg
Blue Belt
Posts: 633
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 pm
Languages: Spanish (N), English (B2-C1), Japanese (A2-B1), Korean (Lower Intermediate?)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 02#p201902
x 1302

Re: taking naps

Postby AndyMeg » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:07 am

Cavesa wrote:
AndyMeg wrote:I've been interested in this topic for quite some time, so I've done some experiments and read some books and many articles. Here is a summary of the main points I can think of right now:

Not all people need the same amount of sleep. So one thing that is recommended is to go to sleep when you feel like it and to wake up without an alarm clock. Of course, to do this is not easy in a tight daily schedule, but maybe you may try it when you are on holiday. (this could give you a good idea of how many hours a day you need to sleep)

Thank you! You are an amazing resource!

I've tried and I am able to repeatedly sleep for over 12 hours a day (normally. When I was immunologically ill for a year, it was often 14 or even 18 hours a day. Now it's just between 10 and 13). I cannot follow that. Especially as that would mean more dreams and therefore being less rested.

Then, maybe, you could try to sleep the max amount of time you can at night and then complement your sleep with short naps during the day. The ideal time for each nap would be when you feel your energy levels have decreased significantly and you feel too tired and/or is hard to focus on what you have to do. And if you can't take those naps, then a nap around noon just before lunch or an hour after it could be a good boost.

Cavesa wrote:
Environmental conditions are also important for a good sleep. Your sleeping space should be as dark as possible (and if that's not the case, a good eye mask may be of help) and have the right temperature (not too cold, not too hot). Investing in a good mattress and some good pillows can help a lot too. Also, it is important to separate the sleeping space from your working space. Both spaces should have a different feeling to it. Also, warm lights are best to create a good "sleeping ambience" (for example: warm lighted room)

Eating early is a good idea (go to sleep two or more hours after your last meal for the day). Also, the type of food you eat for dinner may affect your sleep. For example, eating meat or fatty foods is not recommended at night.

I'll try getting that mask, despite my fear of darkness. I have a good mattress and pillow. I don't get enough darkness usually but even when I do, it makes no difference. The longer periods of time with sleeping in the ideal dark and temperature conditions still didn't remove the main problem:too active sleeping.

This may be related to high levels of anxiety and stress, so maybe you could get the help of a professional for this area. Constant anxiety and stress are just symptoms so it would be ideal to get to the roots and slowly change thinking patterns and behaviors that may be contributing to exacerbate that problem.

Cavesa wrote:But the mask should help falling asleep for a shorter nap during the day.

How do people with small appartments do it, tearing apart the working and sleeping space?

The separation doesn't need to be strictly physical, the most important aspect is that it helps your mind to feel a diferent ambience between the two spaces. Light, for example, could help: use brighter lights for work, and warmer ones for rest. Also, you could use multifunctional furniture and set different organizations for each activity. Another thing you could do is to set a curtain that encloses your working area and hides it out of sight for when you are resting. So, when you are working the curtain is open and "grants" you access to your working space; when you are resting the curtain is closed and you can't see your working space. Another idea is to use different colors for the walls. Say, for example, from your bed you see the north wall of your apartment, so you put a relaxing color there. And if, for example, your working space's sight is to the east wall, then you put a different color there.

Cavesa wrote:There is the problem. I cannot just not do some stuff several hours before going to sleep, because there are simply not enough hours in the day. If I was studying a funny "university" with no work required (there are many), I could easily do this. But I need to get a good score in a competition against 9000 people in a year from now. Also, when else should I read a page turner? I am asking because I honestly don't know. And what am I supposed to do in that hour? Looking at the whole list of things I cannot do (the internet including serious websites lists tons of things), the only thing left is staring into the ceiling, which is the best way to induce an anxiety attack. What do you do before sleep?

Good sleep actually helps you learn better and faster. Sometimes I've even seen it recommended to take a short nap after a study session because that can help to strengthen your learning.

More time invested doesn't always equal to better results. The most important factor is how optimal your use of the time you have is. One thing I've learnt, for example, is to try to do activities according to my current energy levels: some activities require a lot of focus and energy (intensive study, for example) while others don't. So I try to optimize my time according to my current energy levels and if I need more energy for an urgent activity then I try to take a very short nap (10 minutes long) to boost my energy levels.

Maybe this course could be of help to optimize the use of your time: Learning How to Learn: Powerful mental tools to help you master tough subjects (if I'm not mistaken, the course's content is free and you only need to pay if you want to get a certificate).

Before sleep I do some of these activities: listen to music, listen to some podcasts (I put a timer in my tablet so that it turns off by itself after an hour or so). Do some light reading (no page turners, but maybe short articles or chapters of non fiction books, or even some fiction with the right pace so that I won't feel the urgent need to finish the whole book before going to sleep). The activities I do vary from night to night depending on my mood and other factors, so these activities are just some examples.
Cavesa wrote:How have you applied these things to the naps during the day? Do you not do stuff one hour before the nap? Or have you found some easier way to simply fall asleep? Or is the whole timing different, thanks to the nap being so much shorter?

Naps are more flexible, so I don't apply all those recommendations for them (though following some of the recommended guidelines can help you get more out of your naps). I never wait an hour doing nothing before a nap; but if I have just eaten lunch then I try to wait one hour before taking a nap (I wait doing something that is not a strong physical activity, the specific activity depends of what I have to do that day: sometimes is a resting activity, sometimes is a study activity, sometimes it is related to work). And if I'm too tired that day then I take the nap first and then I eat lunch.

When I feel tired is usually easy to fall asleep. There's a caveat, though: if I'm too tired but I postpone the sleep time, then the sleepiness goes away for a few hours, but if I keep postponing the time to sleep then I start to feel sick.

Cavesa wrote:Thank you!

Your welcome! I hope to help even a little. ;)
1 x
Beyond The Story 10 Year Record of BTS Korean version: 36 / 522

User avatar
Aozora
Orange Belt
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:46 pm
Location: Canada
Languages: English(N), Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17971
x 203

Re: Taking naps to improve studying efficiency

Postby Aozora » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:29 pm

I have no idea what you eat, but do you think you might have any nutrient deficiencies? Or as Xenops mentioned, maybe try reducing the amount of carbs (especially sugar) that you eat (replacing the calories with fats but not vegetable oils). The ketogenic diet is very extreme, but I think just reducing carbs can help too. There's definitely been times in my life when I ate sugary foods too often and felt lethargic and fatigued.

Cavesa wrote:I have read a lot about the wonderful habit of siesta and its variation. One thing really caught my attention: 20 minute long naps. And the best: caffeine naps: you drink a coffee and go to sleep (the problem:how to fall asleep asap), wake up after 20 minutes (how to hear the alarmclock?), and the caffeine should be kicking in by then. The short nap should be safe from REM and dreams (or I have learnt my neurology really badly :-D )


One afternoon I thought I'd like to learn a little more about quantum physics, because I love documentaries on space and quantum physics, but I have no in-depth knowledge on the subject. So I started watching a youtube video about some quantum physics theory... and my brain just started falling asleep, I could just feel it shutting down, and I started nodding off. So I shut off the video, and took a nap. I fell asleep super fast. Now, I'm not really one for naps, so this was a pretty weird thing to happen to me. Anyway, what I'm saying is maybe you could try to listen to some difficult and wordy talk or audiobook on a subject you don't understand or like, and it could put you to sleep like quantum physics did to me :lol:
2 x
Super Challenge Books: 14 / 100
Super Challenge Films: 63 / 100

NoManches
Blue Belt
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:21 pm
Location: Estados Unidos (near the Mexican border)
Languages: English - (N)
Spanish - B2 +
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7942
x 1459

Re: Taking naps to improve studying efficiency

Postby NoManches » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:16 pm

Tried a "caffeine nap" yesterday. By the time I fished my coffee I think the caffeine was kicking in so I wasn't able to sleep 8-)

Next time I'll have to drink it a lot faster. I find that early in the morning I have a lot of trouble doing anything in my L2. I have no problem waking up early and usually prefer it, but it takes a few hours for my brain to wake up. If I try to do anything without having coffee first then I'm doomed for failure.
1 x
DOUBLE Super Challenge
Spanish Movies
: 10795 / 18000

Spanish Books
: 4415 / 10000

User avatar
Iversen
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4781
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: Denmark
Languages: Monolingual travels in Danish, English, German, Dutch, Swedish, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Italian, Romanian and (part time) Esperanto
Ahem, not yet: Norwegian, Afrikaans, Platt, Scots, Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Latin, Irish, Indonesian and a few more...
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1027
x 15001

Re: taking naps

Postby Iversen » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:35 am

Cavesa wrote:I think I have gathered a lot of info but I'll be grateful for anyone else sharing their experience. (...) I have also been gathering info through the proper channels. (...) I am gonna try this out and see how it works out.


You'll probably soon notice whether it works or not - and if not, you will probably also have enough common sense to stop the experiment.

Btw. I have once experimented with another drastic change in my sleep patterns, namely near the end of my study years, where I had to deliver a 100-page thesis about the correlative pronouns in French (things like tel quel). It was a hard time, partly because I wanted to include the history back to Latin and - outside the 100 page limit - an appendix where not only all constructions with the correlatives, but ALL constructions involved with subordinate phrases or derivations thereof were counted and categorized according to a system I had developed a year or so earlier. So I counted all relevant constructions on 10.000 pages of French literature and wrote the more interesting examples down, but as the end of the allotted 6 months drew nearer I realized that it might be difficult to submit the thesis exactly 6 months after I had started writing it. And then I switched to a 36 hour cycle with one or two short naps between the long sleep periods, and this meant that I could get much more work done - and I did submit the thesis on the exact date. After that I returned to the normal 24 hour cyclus without any kind of sinister aftereffects.

What would have happened if I had postponed the submission? Probably nothing - most of my co-students didn't deliver within the 6 months, but I have always been slightly stubborn about such things. As for the statistical part only one other similar general syntactical survey had been published, and I was not satisfied with its syntactical model. And (of course) I got a quite decent note, but then left the academical system for good.

BTW: Congrats with your exam

Informationen.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests