huge anki decks

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Re: huge anki decks

Postby smallwhite » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:10 am

Cavesa wrote:
Memrise won't serve, I'm afraid. I did some longer courses there (not hyperlong, but long) and I wasn't happy with the algorhytm, when it comes to the older cards. And it is not useable for some card formats.

Memrise's planting stage multiple-choice and Quizlet's Matching especially on the phone, work like magic for me for initial memorisation.
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby rdearman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:28 am

Creating cards can be very quickly done if you have a little bit of programming skill, or even just good with Excel (or LibreOffice Calc) spreadsheets.

The fastest way to get cards is to import them as a spreadsheet. Vocabulary (single word) cards are very easy, you just download a list of vocabulary words and using Googlesheets do a translation. (I think you're doing German?) I did a video of this. Which shows you how to do quick translations. Once you've generated a sheet full of words and translations you can import them as an ANKI deck.

I also did one that shows you how to strip "most common" words from PDF's and other text then use a program to figure out common words. You can use that, plus the above to generate anki cards.



Those are useful for vocabulary words. But you can use the same spreadsheet system to generate cards. Don't use the Add Card function in Anki because it isn't very efficient. You'd be much better off opening a spreadsheet and copy and pasting the questions and answers in per row then importing them. This means you can open up electronic documents if you have them and just copy and paste a lot.

You can also create Cloze Deletion cards in the spreadsheet but you'll need to know some of the string commands in the software you're using. But really the fastest way to create cards is to create a spreadsheet full of them and import them.
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Cavesa » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:34 pm

I have been thinking about such a spreadsheet import to Anki. I stopped at the first step or rather before it. I cannot find any of the resources I want to use in an easily spreadsheetable form. No epubs or at least pdfs. And when it comes to copying books in computer, the difference between a spreadsheet and adding by one is not that huge, I'm afraid. I don't want the frequency lists, I don't find them good enough. I want lists based on coursebooks (at least a few are on memrise, I can import them with an addon and fix problems I couldn't edit in Memrise), on my own reading, on vocab training books and so on.

Or perhaps... if I could easily copy a pdf somehow to a spreadsheet, it might be a bit easier. Not much but at least a bit, as a large part of my German resources is just paper based.
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:42 pm

Cavesa wrote:
CRAMMING is an important part of this. I am so far behind the ideal plan that I need to cram for months to make up for it.
Thanks for lots of valuable notes, this is one of the posts I will return to several times, it seems.

How much time would you spend on those thousands of cards? How much time were you able to keep putting in every day without burning out?

[perhaps 14 hours a day - but doing other things, childminding mostly, sometimes while eating slowly / waiting for meetings to start, often while watching TV! I just used the phone app (when it was better) and when my attention was needed I switched to child but also at the end of a section, I'd make a fuss, ask some questions. I struggled with the pc/webpage back then. Key was to dip in and out - fill in gaps (adverts, boring bits in films)]


I think a part of my "not new" advantage is the fact most subjects are more or less intertwined with the others, some more and some less. And I know a part of almost all the subjects, I get around 30% in the tests for the french exam (I need to get over 80% or ideally 90% to have a good chance of not having a horrible results in the exam week with all the nervosity), I can talk about a lot of stuff at least superficially. I don't have the details. In some areas, I know more. In some, I haven't touched the subject yet. It is really varied.

On MAKING cards. I have a trouble with it, it takes a lot of time. Did you find any way to make it more efficient or less of a torture, or did you just settle for the already made decks instead, to not waste time?

[RDearman, google sheets. I'm a programmer and I wrote some text sifting stuff that went into google sheets and then a mass upload complete with mistakes to memrise. But I mostly used others' decks. Also full of mistakes.]

14 hours! wow! and for 3 months. That is a wonderful example, one of the things I had been hoping to read. Experience of others and an idea of what is realistic and what could be the limits. Pomodoro is great, I experimented with the times a bit, but the original 25/5 is probably the best. I somehow don't get enough "immersion" during just 20 minutes, despite the difference not being that huge.

[Depended - did skip a LOT of days, few hours on some days, 14 hours at weekend and sometimes mid week. Told kid and wife what I was up to. Worked late some days, used some work time as it was related to work, otherwise head down for 25 minutes, kettle on, make a fuss of kid, chat to wife/provide tea and back for another 25 minutes. I liked SmallWhite's idea of averaging over 3 days - that sounds excellent. I have little habit/discipline but also littl erestraint when I go a bit mad. VERY inconsistent.]

It is hard to ask people about the time they are putting in studying. Most are either exagerrating or trying to look more cool by saying lower numbers. And you cannot ask like "and out of the 8 hours, how much did you spend on facebook and instagram?". When you tell me about Pomodory, I know what you are talking about without further asking. I still don't know how to survive such an intensive plan though :-D

About the video material: there is some in French and in English. In French, it covers just a small part of the curriculum, only some subjects. In English, I get to a similar problem like with the non-French books. But I'll trying playing more with it. The speed idea looks very interesting but I guess it would depend on the kind of video and speech included. Students of IT or maths are very fortunate to have so much video material on youtube. It really looks like both (and also other fields, sure) have a lot of students and teachers who love the subject and love to share.

[I mentioned double speed to a colleague who isn't a native English speaker but has lived here for 25+ years, much to my surprise she said she did 1.25 to 1.5 times speed depending on the presenter / subject. I think everyone should try it - they seem to add frequency modification to prevent it sounding like a mouse (pluralsight, youtube, microsoft).]

The overlaps are something I am sure to benefit from too. An example: the hypertension is being treated in the overall intern medicine, in cardiology, in nephrology, and I think also in endocrinology. Also, it is logical most of the subjects overlap, it is still one body they are talking about. But it is even worse, when I cannot remember something that I have seen so many times. :-D I need more reviews.

[Do you have a map? http://unreasonable.org/Feynman_and_the_map_of_the_cat]


For languages, it is similar. Perhaps instead of fighting it and trying to find a way to make a master list of vocabulary out of all my sources without repetitions, I should just embrace it and make more lists. And if I let something in for the second or third time, I obviously need to see more of it. Thanks for leading me to this thought.

[I like Listening-Reading - one advantage is that the frequently used bits are encountered more often and reinforced. Not just words, but sounds melding together.]


I am not be a newbie crammer. (heh, vast majority of my studies has been cramming. and I remember a lot, considering the cramming attitude). But I need to do it on a scale I could have hardly imagined before. I hate myself for not having been a better student, but there were also valid reasons for it. There is no point in wasting time on regretting the lost time, I need to cram now.

[You are where you are, no regrets, one step at a time. You seem to me to have a vast intellect (compared to me)]


I am lucky I can afford relying on official materials by experts, my dad is supporting me in my studies and providing even for my textbook needs. But still, no expert is likely to know my particular weaknesses better than me, so the cards made by myself are a must this time.

[Everyone's different, I suffer from being lazy/procrastination. Being constructively lazy might mean that I spend 2 days creating a spreadsheet or application so I don't EVER have to do it by hand again.]


Thank you for your good wishes. **during the times of intensive studying, I drink two liters of filtered coffee per day. Or several espressos (cappuccino or latte during the winter or for breakfast). I don't drink the Turkish coffee and I hope the "Czech coffee" is safely buried in the prehistory, with the rest of the 20th century :-D Tea is awesome, I am more for the black one, but I am considering switching to green. I like it too, I just somehow cannot get myself to it. Is it really good for memory?

[I'm English - we drink tea as a pick-me-up, if we're dehydrated, too hot, too cold, bored. I used to drink instant coffee (quicker to make) - 14 a day when programming, the caffeine didn't affect me greatly, others won't sleep if they have an afternoon tea. No comment on my misspelled Bavorak? Fernet Stock & Tonica.]

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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:46 pm

Supermemo?

Not used it - but watched a few videos / read articles.
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:56 pm

rdearman wrote:Another suggestion for "cramming" would be to simply record yourself speaking the facts you need to remember and then save as an mp3 and listen to it constantly whenever you cannot cram or do something else. Basically background listening to the facts all the time. This can be speeded up using vlc or other player as someone else mentioned above.


Audacity - recording your own voice making notes of key bits? Maybe even videoing textbooks with commentary. Then replay as you said (mp3 on bus)) or pomodoro reviews of videos at double speed? Get a fellow student (or several) to do similar and share? I doubt that would work from my own experiences....

Could this be a basis of a language learning method? People cover off different aspects of a language, overlap, alternative presenters. Textbook videoing with commentary.... Normally I just glaze over with written textbooks and courses. Having to comment might just keep my attention and stop my mind wondering (one of the reasons I double speed videos + ADD SUBTITLES - I forgot that bit). Watching the videos of others with different emphasis and commentary might work as well. It might all aid in joining the dots and reinforcing links.
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:19 pm

I’ve got no advice for the medical studies, but I’ll jump in on the German. I tried doing a Memrise course for the top 5000 words in French. I only made it to 1500 because the daily reviews were just killing me. It took forever, and frankly seemed like overkill. I wanted to get to new words, not just review, review, review.

I’ve switched to Clozemaster for German and French and haven’t looked back. You do get review, but the algorithm is much more focused on moving forward. For every ten sentences you have like 8 new and 2 review. Also, you get sentences, not just single words. You pick up a lot of grammar without trying when you are exposed to whole sentences. And the best part? You don’t have to make the cards! I’ve found the sentences to be good idiomatic German. If there are mistakes, I haven’t noticed. Good luck!
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Whodathunkitz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:29 pm

Lawyer&Mom wrote:I’ve got no advice for the medical studies, but I’ll jump in on the German. I tried doing a Memrise course for the top 5000 words in French. I only made it to 1500 because the daily reviews were just killing me. It took forever, and frankly seemed like overkill. I wanted to get to new words, not just review, review, review.

I’ve switched to Clozemaster for German and French and haven’t looked back. You do get review, but the algorithm is much more focused on moving forward. For every ten sentences you have like 8 new and 2 review. Also, you get sentences, not just single words. You pick up a lot of grammar without trying when you are exposed to whole sentences. And the best part? You don’t have to make the cards! I’ve found the sentences to be good idiomatic German. If there are mistakes, I haven’t noticed. Good luck!


On memrise and similar I prefer sentence courses with audio especially at the start. I think for later and vocab, the top 5000 type courses could be useful.

Once you've done a card a few times, the length of time between reviews increases.

I generally did one course at a time for learning, changing defaults helps - more cards at a time. New cards better when quiet/more refreshed.

Review good for when tired. Then can whizz through loads. Reviews of a mix of courses.

I didn't follow suggestions from memrise, I did what I fancied. Mixed it up.
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Cavesa » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:05 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
-using the basic algorhytm, how many reviews should I expect in the following weeks and months, if I learn 20, 50, 100, 150 cards a day?


By "learn", do you mean to "go through" the new words until they disappear (usually that's twice)? Personally, I let Anki show up to 50 new cards (if there are any). If I've added fewer, fine. If more, then the rest will appear next day. If I add something everyday, the daily amount of cards will increase - unless they're all super-easy ("Easy"!). Then they'll soon move into the distant future. I haven't done any exact calculations, but let's look at my Cantonese/Czech (both of which I've worked on for nearly the same time, and with the same approach)

Yes, that's what I mean. Making the cards not jump on me a few times per day (the 1 min and 10 min intervals). That is twice for easy cards, ten or more times for the really hard ones.


What I do know, is the number of cards added to Anki during the study period:

CS: 2033 cards - 582 mature ones at the end of the period.
YUE: 2064 cards - the deck had 1783 cards before the study, so out of the total 3847 (in my Cantonese deck), it seems that 2474 are mature (the older cards plus another ~700, I assume?).

Almost the same number of podcasts in the two languages, almost the same number of cards - and roughly the same "progress" from Unseen to Mature.
(my log, from 04 February 2018)

And earlier today, the number of reviews was ~300 for Czech and ~200 for Cantonese (before I added anything new). That's after more or less daily reviews since August, plus daily additions since early December.


Thanks, this is a very good example. The Cantonese example is in difficulty probably much closer to my medicine cards, than my Spanish or German decks. My German "feeling of difficulty" might be closer to an English native learning Czech, I guess.



-can I set different algorhytms for easy and difficult decks?


Do you know beforehand which decks will be easy and difficult? If so, I think it's easier to give you a better/worse score, similar to what I write here:
Sentence reps investigation

Sketchc89 has other suggestions in the reply.

I'll study Sketchc89's suggestions thoroughly.

I can guess the difficulty pretty well. A Spanish deck is likely to be easy, even with lots of new and advanced words. A German deck is likely to be harder. A medicine deck with a subject I like and am more familiar with (like cardiology or neurology) is likely to be somewhere around German. A medicine deck with something I haven't studied yet at all (like pediatrics) or hate (and it resists me, like orthopedics) is much harder.

Even in the decks of medium difficulty, there are hard cards, whether it is a language deck or a medicine one.


-does the algorhytm still work, if I don't follow it exactly and instead of doing a number of reviews a day, I would measure time, like 30/60/90 minutes a day?


Left-overs will appear the next day (first in the pile), and depending on your addition rate (and learning rate), the daily pile of cards may increase.

Yes, this worries me a bit. How to deal with the huge piles. Sometimes, I work with the same "left-overs" all the time, and the rest gets hidden at the bottom of the card pile. Can I somehow mix the daily pile?

For me it's less of a chore now, but I've used it for nearly 10 years. The Portuguese deck still gives me ~600 daily cards (plus 50 new).

Probably the Portuguese deck, which at the beginning of the year had 78451 (!) cards (of which no fewer than 61235 were still unseen)

Wow! This sounds harsh but very motivating, thanks. If it's so worth it, I must stick to it like you. Almost 80000 cards learnt this way!

Thanks!!!
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Cavesa
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Re: huge anki decks

Postby Cavesa » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:19 pm

Whodathunkitz wrote:
rdearman wrote:Another suggestion for "cramming" would be to simply record yourself speaking the facts you need to remember and then save as an mp3 and listen to it constantly whenever you cannot cram or do something else. Basically background listening to the facts all the time. This can be speeded up using vlc or other player as someone else mentioned above.


Audacity - recording your own voice making notes of key bits? Maybe even videoing textbooks with commentary. Then replay as you said (mp3 on bus)) or pomodoro reviews of videos at double speed? Get a fellow student (or several) to do similar and share? I doubt that would work from my own experiences....

Could this be a basis of a language learning method? People cover off different aspects of a language, overlap, alternative presenters. Textbook videoing with commentary.... Normally I just glaze over with written textbooks and courses. Having to comment might just keep my attention and stop my mind wondering (one of the reasons I double speed videos + ADD SUBTITLES - I forgot that bit). Watching the videos of others with different emphasis and commentary might work as well. It might all aid in joining the dots and reinforcing links.


This is something I've been thinking about a lot actually. A few weeks ago, I got an eye problem. Fortunately, the doctor's recommendation fixed it. I have dry eyes, from all those books and screens. Heh, I could joke that I've cried so much I have no tears left :-D And this is something we discussed in my log too and I got such recommendations and have tried a few times. I need to work on it more. I would love to have textbooks in the audiobook version. With professionals, who would make even the dry chapters sound nice. I can't imagine the prices, but I can imagine how awesome would it be, Robbin's pathology or Harisson's internal medicine, read by people like Morgan Freeman.

I don't think it can replace the SRS in my plan, but it could work nicely for some situations. For example, I cannot read in most transports. Definitely not in a car, and very often not in a bus or tram (depends on the kind of route and how many people there are), and not always in the metro. So, this could help here too.

Pomodoros could work for various activities.

It could work for some parts of language learning too, with one catch: we could easily fossilise our own mistakes, or those of other learners. I think self-recording is still underused and does have some nice functions (elingora is a good example), but I would be careful about this.
Lawyer&Mom wrote:I’ve got no advice for the medical studies, but I’ll jump in on the German. I tried doing a Memrise course for the top 5000 words in French. I only made it to 1500 because the daily reviews were just killing me. It took forever, and frankly seemed like overkill. I wanted to get to new words, not just review, review, review.

I’ve switched to Clozemaster for German and French and haven’t looked back. You do get review, but the algorithm is much more focused on moving forward. For every ten sentences you have like 8 new and 2 review. Also, you get sentences, not just single words. You pick up a lot of grammar without trying when you are exposed to whole sentences. And the best part? You don’t have to make the cards! I’ve found the sentences to be good idiomatic German. If there are mistakes, I haven’t noticed. Good luck!


Clozemaster is great. But it is based just on frequency, and I need lists based on my coursebooks, or on my input. Otherwise, I would be extremely happy. The algorhytm is nice, true.

Whodathunkitz wrote:On memrise and similar I prefer sentence courses with audio especially at the start. I think for later and vocab, the top 5000 type courses could be useful.

Once you've done a card a few times, the length of time between reviews increases.

I generally did one course at a time for learning, changing defaults helps - more cards at a time. New cards better when quiet/more refreshed.

Review good for when tired. Then can whizz through loads. Reviews of a mix of courses.

I didn't follow suggestions from memrise, I did what I fancied. Mixed it up.


It's true that I could combine SRS. From all I have read, it looks like learning good courses on Memrise first and then reviewing on Anki could be a nice course of action. Having the initial typing advantage, with the medium and long term review algorhytm of anki.

The fresh vs. tired disctinction looks good at first too. Too bad I only have tired and very tired modes :-D
And it is dangerous, in the sense of the "lazier" method being too tempting, compared to the more demanding one.
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