Advancing and checking your advancement

[eido]

This is my first post on the forum and it's probably going to be a mistake because I haven't done too much research into the questions I'm going to ask, but I'll do it anyway...

Can anyone point me to some good threads about improving your language level? Or, if you have your own advice separate from what can be found in those old discussions, would you care to share it?

For reference, I'm supposedly a B1 in Spanish. I'm however doubtful about this since I've never taken an official test to prove this. I've heard however that even official tests can be unreliable.

In a similar vein, I'm wondering how you can accurately evaluate your skills. The test I took most recently about my Spanish abilities was one from Berlitz in an expensive program I bought to learn the language. It consisted of listening and reading portions. The listening I remember was brutal, mostly because (I think) I didn't know the words they were using.

I've tried reading news and watching vloggers and street interviews and listening to podcasts, but nothing ever seems to catch my fancy. Even music just frustrates me because I want everything to come easy, and I find I'm not interested in love if it's a Mexican guy talking about it (i.e. it's too much effort to understand his language - I'd rather just listen without understanding because that's the path to enjoyment). Is my problem not liking Spanish, or is it just simple laziness?

Thank you if you reply.

[iguanamon]

... I'm wondering how you can accurately evaluate your skills. The test I took most recently about my Spanish abilities was one from Berlitz in an expensive program I bought to learn the language. It consisted of listening and reading portions. The listening I remember was brutal, mostly because (I think) I didn't know the words they were using.

First, welcome to the forum, eido! Official tests are more reliable than internet tests. There are some, perhaps, better tests on line than what you took from Berlitz. Try the Defense Language Institute's Online Diagnostic Test for Spanish for one test This should give you an idea if you are in the ballpark.

Can anyone point me to some good threads about improving your language level? Or, if you have your own advice separate from what can be found in those old discussions, would you care to share it?

One good thread I can remember is Time from B2 to C1/C2? by member PeterMollenburg. There's lots of good advice there. Also, check out my link in the signature of this post for my frequent advice.
This forum is all about advancing levels- from nothing to proficiency. From A0 to B1 there are many ways. For the higher levels, a learner needs to engage with the language by reading, listening, speaking and writing, not just studying.

I've tried reading news and watching vloggers and street interviews and listening to podcasts, but nothing ever seems to catch my fancy. Even music just frustrates me because I want everything to come easy, and I find I'm not interested in love if it's a Mexican guy talking about it (i.e. it's too much effort to understand his language - I'd rather just listen without understanding because that's the path to enjoyment). Is my problem not liking Spanish, or is it just simple laziness?

Yes and Yes. Sorry to be blunt, but it is indeed a mixture of both. Also, you have to know how to learn, which is what a course doesn't teach you. There are ways to make the un-comprehensible, comprehensible and significantly less frustrating. Reading with parallel texts is one way. Listening with using a transcript or a parallel text is another (links in my signature link at the bottom of this post). Learning a language to a high level takes a lot of effort and a lot of time, sometimes it can be more effort and more time than many folks are willing to give. You don't have to live, breathe and sleep Spanish, but probably at least an hour a day of study every day is a minimum of time and effort. As you will read in my signature link about the multi-track approach, a course in itself is not enough to get you to where you want to be, despite the course cover hype. The forum is here to help people like yourself. We've all been where you are now. Read the forum and look at people's logs. Also, check out our Spanish Group here on the forum. ¡Suerte!

[eido]

Yes and Yes. Sorry to be blunt, but it is indeed a mixture of both. Also, you have to know how to learn, which is what a course doesn't teach you. There are ways to make the un-comprehensible, comprehensible and significantly less frustrating. Reading with parallel texts is one way. Listening with using a transcript or a parallel text is another (links in my signature link at the bottom of this post). Learning a language to a high level takes a lot of effort and a lot of time, sometimes it can be more effort and more time than many folks are willing to give. You don't have to live, breathe and sleep Spanish, but probably at least an hour a day of study every day is a minimum of time and effort. As you will read in my signature link about the multi-track approach, a course in itself is not enough to get you to where you want to be, despite the course cover hype.

Hmm, then if it's me not liking Spanish, should I switch to another language or give up the pursuit of language learning altogether? I ask the latter because every time I've tried to start a language from scratch again it does nothing but frustrate me. I've read that people find going from A0 to A2 (or even B1) a sort of honeymoon stage, but I can't even bring myself to like learning to count. With Spanish, I started learning it in school, and basically every American I think knows the numbers up to five in Spanish and a few common, basic greetings, so I didn't have to start from the beginning. I will consider your advice about the parallel texts and transcripts though if and when I do find my groove. I like the resources in the Spanish group I've been seeing so far as I browse as I type this. So far I've been reading with an easy reader that has no English translation except for more difficult words, and I've been translating every word in my head as I read.

I will post what my estimated Spanish level is once I can figure out how to use that website you linked works. Thanks for the response. I know my posts can be a little whiny, but I'm also trying to practice putting myself out there so I can solve my problems and make friends.

[iguanamon]

... Hmm, then if it's me not liking Spanish, should I switch to another language or give up the pursuit of language learning altogether? I ask the latter because every time I've tried to start a language from scratch again it does nothing but frustrate me. I've read that people find going from A0 to A2 (or even B1) a sort of honeymoon stage, but I can't even bring myself to like learning to count. ... I will post what my estimated Spanish level is once I can figure out how to use that website you linked works. Thanks for the response. I know my posts can be a little whiny, but I'm also trying to practice putting myself out there so I can solve my problems and make friends.

Well, you may have answered your own question. Consider though, if you were to switch languages it may still be frustrating to you because you still won't understand everything in the new language until you break out of the intermediate level. Like the old saying "No matter where you go, there you are". If you are not interested in Hispanic culture and society (and it's a culture that spans around 20 countries and large part of the world, it's much more than just Mexico), then cut your losses and switch, but I find that I can't learn a language if I don't feel an attraction to the culture and people it represents. In other words, I can't just randomly pick a language. YMMV

One of the reasons I recommend looking at some native material and making it comprehensible in the early stages of learning is that it can motivate someone who is stuck with their head in a course to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel... that learning a second language can be done and can indeed provide benefits for sticking with it. For me, it's the desire to get to the point to where I don't need any crutches to enjoy the access that learning a language to a high level brings that motivates and motivated me.

Learning a language is a lot about attitude and desire. A learner's attitude towards a language and its culture (they go hand in hand) affects desire toward learning the language to a large extent, in my experience. To be successful I have to want it. If you don't want it, nobody here can help you. If you do want it, the forum can help. It may be as simple as switching up your routine. There are many ways to learn a language but there is one sure way not to learn one- quitting. I can't answer for you whether or not you should quit. Only you can do that. So, perhaps I should ask you or better, you should ask yourself- why do you want to learn a second-language in the first place? What do you see as a benefit to you in learning a second language?

[eido]

Well, you may have answered your own question. Consider though, if you were to switch languages it may still be frustrating to you because you still won't understand everything in the new language until you break out of the intermediate level. Like the old saying "No matter where you go, there you are". If you are not interested in Hispanic culture and society (and it's a culture that spans around 20 countries and large part of the world, it's much more than just Mexico), then cut your losses and switch, but I find that I can't learn a language if I don't feel an attraction to the culture and people it represents. In other words, I can't just randomly pick a language. YMMV

One of the reasons I recommend looking at some native material and making it comprehensible in the early stages of learning is that it can motivate someone who is stuck with their head in a course to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel... that learning a second language can be done and can indeed provide benefits for sticking with it. For me, it's the desire to get to the point to where I don't need any crutches to enjoy the access that learning a language to a high level brings that motivates and motivated me.

Learning a language is a lot about attitude and desire. A learner's attitude towards a language and its culture (they go hand in hand) affects desire toward learning the language to a large extent, in my experience. To be successful I have to want it. If you don't want it, nobody here can help you. If you do want it, the forum can help. It may be as simple as switching up your routine. There are many ways to learn a language but there is one sure way not to learn one- quitting. I can't answer for you whether or not you should quit. Only you can do that. So, perhaps I should ask you or better, you should ask yourself- why do you want to learn a second-language in the first place? What do you see as a benefit to you in learning a second language?

Oh, goodness. I hate "the mileage may vary" thing, but that's just because I don't like work, I think.
I think the joy I originally got out of learning Spanish was simply being able to understand something that wasn't my language. "There's another word for this, but it's not English? Cool!" I'm not interested in really any culture to be honest, not even my own. I say this, though maybe there's some kind of subconscious psychological mechanism that would say otherwise. I'm still looking to break this disinterest because I think it boxes me in. I think maybe one motivation is that I'd want to help people who can't understand English, to understand the world around them. I know yours was probably a rhetorical question, but I answered it anyway for hopefully my benefit. I've answered it many times these past few months but nothing gets done. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Learning a second language could help me get a better job, but I think even if I got a job, I'd be so happy to speak a different language every day that I wouldn't mind so much the fact that I'd gotten better pay. There's just this coolness factor to it. Whenever I hear someone speaking a different language at my work or in public, I stop and listen and I swear my jaw goes slack. I do this with my parents too who speak one around the house. I think it's probably a vapid way to go about things, though. Thank you for trying to help.

[eido]

Alright, I haven't taken the reading yet but on listening I'm on level 2 and for grammar I got 77% on level 2. The test for the latter was a little confusing, though. I kept messing up because of this, I think.

[Brun Ugle]

Actually, I wasn’t interested in Hispanic culture either when I started with Spanish. I started learning Spanish because I thought it would be a language I could learn easily and quickly, but I didn’t really have an interest in the language in itself or in the culture. Mostly I just wanted to know another language. However, as my level got more advanced and I could start watching television and reading books I found that there’s a wealth of Hispanic literature and television and it’s great stuff. Now, I love it.

That leads me to a question. You said you aren’t interested in culture, not even your own. So what do you mean by culture? Do you never watch television or read books or anything? Because that’s a big part of what culture is. Culture isn’t just folk dances and national costumes. And since you found it so exciting to be able to learn a new word in a different language, I think when you get to watch your first television show or read your first novel in Spanish and understand it, you will find the same excitement. I remember when I watched my first real telenovela, I didn’t understand a lot a first and had to rely on what I saw on the screen and on the predictability of the story, but I could understand bits of dialogue and sometimes I would understand an entire scene. When that happened, it was so exciting. The joy would just well up inside me. I also remember the first time I understood a joke. It was the sort of silly joke that’s usually not funny to anyone over the age of seven, but I laughed and laughed. It was just so exciting to see a word used with a double meaning and get it right away — in a foreign language!

You said one of your motivations is to be able to help people who don’t understand English. Maybe you need to involve a human aspect in your studies. You could start by finding an exchange partner so you can practice Spanish and they can practice English. You’d be helping each other and it might make the language seem a bit more human and alive to you.

[eido]

Actually, I wasn’t interested in Hispanic culture either when I started with Spanish. I started learning Spanish because I thought it would be a language I could learn easily and quickly, but I didn’t really have an interest in the language in itself or in the culture. Mostly I just wanted to know another language. However, as my level got more advanced and I could start watching television and reading books I found that there’s a wealth of Hispanic literature and television and it’s great stuff. Now, I love it.

That leads me to a question. You said you aren’t interested in culture, not even your own. So what do you mean by culture? Do you never watch television or read books or anything? Because that’s a big part of what culture is. Culture isn’t just folk dances and national costumes. And since you found it so exciting to be able to learn a new word in a different language, I think when you get to watch your first television show or read your first novel in Spanish and understand it, you will find the same excitement. I remember when I watched my first real telenovela, I didn’t understand a lot a first and had to rely on what I saw on the screen and on the predictability of the story, but I could understand bits of dialogue and sometimes I would understand an entire scene. When that happened, it was so exciting. The joy would just well up inside me. I also remember the first time I understood a joke. It was the sort of silly joke that’s usually not funny to anyone over the age of seven, but I laughed and laughed. It was just so exciting to see a word used with a double meaning and get it right away — in a foreign language!

You said one of your motivations is to be able to help people who don’t understand English. Maybe you need to involve a human aspect in your studies. You could start by finding an exchange partner so you can practice Spanish and they can practice English. You’d be helping each other and it might make the language seem a bit more human and alive to you.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I just had a discussion with a friend about how movies are culture, especially older ones like Ferris Bueller's Day Off. She said it could be considered 'culturally significant' because people quote it often and it's in the national psyche. I was always confused by this because I've never understood how an individual mind works, let alone a larger more abstract one like that. I've tried watching a few movies and TV shows in Spanish, but I don't know if they're so much reflective of the culture of any Hispanophone countries because those were Peppa Pig and the third Little Mermaid movie. I relied on plot structure like you did to get through it, and it drove me nuts. But to answer your question, I've read only one book that wasn't related to school in the past two years. One young adult novel out of many textbooks. What I do read more frequently though is fanfiction and I've heard that's a good way to improve - reading it, that is.
You take joy in the simple pleasures. I think my problem is I'm so focused on this nebulous 'C2' goal that I forget what it's like to progress. Inbuilt to that word is satisfaction, I think. I just don't know how to make myself feel it. I don't want it to be easy because it's not supposed to be, but I don't know how to make it enjoyable. Maybe I just need to find this 'comprehensible input' everybody talks about and go from there, so I can experience that excitement that comes from understanding a word. But to be true, I barely even like listening to what people have to say in my own language, so it's difficult to find content that could keep me engaged in another.
And I have dabbled with language partners in the past. I don't have enough words to express myself properly though so I often force the conversation to tilt to English practice, or just let it turn that way naturally and don't complain when I haven't practiced, because I'd rather not be looking up a word in the dictionary every five seconds so I can get my point across. I don't think I'm going about it the right way though. Thank you again for your input.

[Brun Ugle]

The road to C2 is long and if you can’t find some pleasure in the process, it will be very frustrating. I love the feeling of discovery and fortunately I enjoy both TV and books which means I getting a lot of input is fun for me.

An alternative to an exchange partner is a tutor. They are paid to keep you speaking Spanish and to listen to you no matter how long it takes you to get a sentence out. Some of them are also good at coming up with exercises to improve fluency.