Where to go after finishing a language course?

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
mastrinka
White Belt
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:41 pm
Languages: Croatian (N) English (intermediate), Spanish (beginner), Japanese (beginner)
x 47

Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby mastrinka » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:06 pm

I am currently finishing Michel Thomas French language courses (Foundation, Advanced & Builder). Last few months I had a daily routine of listening to few of the tracks in pauses from work, and it felt really effortless and enjoyable.
I feel like I have learned a lot of grammar, although not so much vocabulary.
Now, I am trying to think out how to continue learning after I am done with those courses.

This is point in which I had stuck with learning Spanish - I have learned a lot with those courses, but then I felt lost in other materials, internet etc. I felt overwhelmed and I had trouble finding right materials for my level - not too hard not too easy.

How do you usually do it? Do you have any advice what to focus on, how to continue learning?
Where do you find right materials for your level? How do you keep habit of learning?

I'll appreciate any advice :)
2 x

User avatar
LinguaPony
Orange Belt
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:50 am
Location: Saratov, Russia
Languages: Russian (N), English (Proficient), Italian (Intermediate), M. Chinese (Beginner), German (Just started), Yiddish (half-cooked A1, long since forgotten, but now queued for revival)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7160
x 309
Contact:

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby LinguaPony » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:40 pm

With English at the level of about A2 I proceeded straight to reading unabridged books and didn't care whether they are right for my level or not. With Italian I chose a somewhat easier road and used the bilingual reading shortcut before switching to extensive reading (but again, I never measure the level or count the % of known words - if the book looks interesting, I grab it).

Then a lot of listening - both recorded lessons and songs, hundreds of songs. And lessons on Skype, 30 minutes a week. Habits are not a problem - I know that if I try to stop doing it, I'll be punished with acute withdrawal pains, so the habits just keep themselves.
7 x

User avatar
emk
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1620
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:07 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Languages: English (N), French (B2+)
Badly neglected "just for fun" languages: Middle Egyptian, Spanish.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=723
x 6330
Contact:

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby emk » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:55 pm

mastrinka wrote:I am currently finishing Michel Thomas French language courses (Foundation, Advanced & Builder). Last few months I had a daily routine of listening to few of the tracks in pauses from work, and it felt really effortless and enjoyable.

Congratulations on your progress!

mastrinka wrote:How do you usually do it? Do you have any advice what to focus on, how to continue learning?
Where do you find right materials for your level? How do you keep habit of learning?

Normally, I would encourage you to just throw yourself into using the language: Reading (more or less), speaking (as best you can), and so on. But that would be assuming that you had completed a course like Assimil or Pimsleur, one that gets you somewhere in the neighborhood of a solid A2. If I recall correctly, Michel Thomas is a shorter than many other courses and covers less vocabulary. So in this particular case, it might not hurt to look for a more advanced course to help you get a little bit further.

But for most learners, I would recommend a multi-track approach as describe by Iguanamon. Yes, most native material will still be too hard. But if you look around enough, there's probably something you can do. Can you find a really easy book, maybe one you've already read in another language? Can you use a tool like subs2srs or substudy to manage a really easy TV show? Can you find somebody who's willing to help you struggle through beginner-level conversations? Can you try writing 50 words a day and getting them corrected?

Basically, pretty much everything is a struggle at this level. But that OK, because once you find even one book you can handle, you'll make rapid progress. Sure, if you stick entirely to courses, you'll be able to put off the pain for years. But the people who stick to entirely to courses remain often remain stuck at A2/B1 for years, too. So it's probably better to dive in, look hard for ways to use your language, and force your brain to adapt. :-) Or at least to combine courses and real-world use.
9 x

mastrinka
White Belt
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:41 pm
Languages: Croatian (N) English (intermediate), Spanish (beginner), Japanese (beginner)
x 47

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby mastrinka » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:52 am

emk wrote:Congratulations on your progress!

Normally, I would encourage you to just throw yourself into using the language: Reading (more or less), speaking (as best you can), and so on. But that would be assuming that you had completed a course like Assimil or Pimsleur, one that gets you somewhere in the neighborhood of a solid A2. If I recall correctly, Michel Thomas is a shorter than many other courses and covers less vocabulary. So in this particular case, it might not hurt to look for a more advanced course to help you get a little bit further.

But for most learners, I would recommend a multi-track approach as describe by Iguanamon. Yes, most native material will still be too hard. But if you look around enough, there's probably something you can do. Can you find a really easy book, maybe one you've already read in another language? Can you use a tool like subs2srs or substudy to manage a really easy TV show? Can you find somebody who's willing to help you struggle through beginner-level conversations? Can you try writing 50 words a day and getting them corrected?

Basically, pretty much everything is a struggle at this level. But that OK, because once you find even one book you can handle, you'll make rapid progress. Sure, if you stick entirely to courses, you'll be able to put off the pain for years. But the people who stick to entirely to courses remain often remain stuck at A2/B1 for years, too. So it's probably better to dive in, look hard for ways to use your language, and force your brain to adapt. :-) Or at least to combine courses and real-world use.


Thanks a lot for your encouragement and advice!
I was pretty afraid to throw myself out there in the wild because I was scared that I would lost my motivation because of the too much struggle, but now I see this struggle as normal part of learning.
I have found a great site with lots of readings in French which looks like a good next step toward reading and listening a real materials, so I'll try to combine finishing this builder course with readings and I'll try to find some real online articles to try to tackle.
I've experienced that if I have prepared materials and methodology that I tend to work on it every day without any struggle in motivation.
If I don't have materials prepared I usually fail to cross that small barrier of deciding "where to look now".
1 x

mastrinka
White Belt
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:41 pm
Languages: Croatian (N) English (intermediate), Spanish (beginner), Japanese (beginner)
x 47

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby mastrinka » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:54 am

LinguaPony wrote:With English at the level of about A2 I proceeded straight to reading unabridged books and didn't care whether they are right for my level or not. With Italian I chose a somewhat easier road and used the bilingual reading shortcut before switching to extensive reading (but again, I never measure the level or count the % of known words - if the book looks interesting, I grab it).

Then a lot of listening - both recorded lessons and songs, hundreds of songs. And lessons on Skype, 30 minutes a week. Habits are not a problem - I know that if I try to stop doing it, I'll be punished with acute withdrawal pains, so the habits just keep themselves.


Yes, this completely makes sense...I totally agree about songs, I spent yesterday whole day searching for a catchy songs :D
1 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 am

If you want more audio style courses, but a little more challengings, I would recommend all the levels of Rocket French, which is a nice step up from both Michel Thomas and Pimsleur. If you're happy to progress to a course which requires some time sitting down and going through the text, then I recommend Assimil New French with Ease. This will take you much further than any of the audio courses. However, if you'd like a computer based program, then you can't go past Fluenz French imo. Good luck!
3 x

User avatar
Brun Ugle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2273
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:48 pm
Location: Steinkjer, Norway
Languages: English (N), Norwegian (~C1/C2), Spanish (B1/B2), German (A2/B1?), Japanese (very rusty)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=11484
x 5821
Contact:

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby Brun Ugle » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:31 am

Since you're studying French, I would recommend that you check out the forum's excellent French study group. There are people there at all levels and I'm sure they could suggest materials that they found useful at your level. They can also give you support and encouragement when dealing with the frustration of learning a language. Learning a language is often slow and frustrating, especially the first few. Those who manage to learn a language are those who keep going in spite of the difficulties.

I also wouldn't be too afraid to jump into native materials as others have suggested. You just have to approach it in the right manner. If you focus on the happiness and excitement you feel every time you understand something, it is a lot of fun and very motivating. But if you focus on all the things you don't understand and the disappointment you might feel over not understanding them, then you will quickly lose motivation. When I started Spanish, I used the FSI courses and a few other materials, but I also started watching a telenovela very early on. I didn't really understand a lot in the beginning, but the acting and the predictable nature of telenovelas, plus the words that I did understand, allowed me to follow the story and get hooked. And I found it very exciting whenever I understood several whole sentences in a row. I continued with my course books at the same time, of course, and by the time I got to the end of the telenovela (300 episodes), I could understand nearly everything with very little effort. Now, I'm still studying more advanced materials, but also watching TV shows and reading books.
7 x

User avatar
emk
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1620
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:07 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Languages: English (N), French (B2+)
Badly neglected "just for fun" languages: Middle Egyptian, Spanish.
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=723
x 6330
Contact:

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby emk » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:07 pm

mastrinka wrote:I was pretty afraid to throw myself out there in the wild because I was scared that I would lost my motivation because of the too much struggle, but now I see this struggle as normal part of learning.

It definitely is important to choose materials that aren't too hard! But there's an easy short cut: Just ask yourself, "Am I having fun with this book/show/etc.? Or is it a miserable slog?" As long as you're having fun, the difficulty level should be fine.

Some people are lucky—they can still enjoy reading a book even though they only understand 9 sentences out of every 10, or they can enjoy watching TV even though they only understand half the dialog. These people have great flexibility in choosing native materials. :-) But according to researchers like Krashen, there are other people who seem to need about 98% comprehension of text before they can enjoy reading it. There's nothing wrong with this! But those people will probably have to work harder to find something easy enough.

And you shouldn't worry too much about something being too easy. If you're enjoying it, go ahead and read it! Personally, I think that a lot of people would benefit from more consolidation of what they already know, and easy books/series are great for that. The kind of effortless comprehension that most people want seems to benefit from lots of easy, fun materials.

So in general, just keep asking yourself, "Am I having fun?" If the answer is no, go find something else to read or watch. :-)

And of course, there are ways to "cheat" a bit. My entire Spanish course was basically a 1-page laminated overview of Spanish grammar, but that hasn't kept me from enjoying a couple of Spanish TV series. (Admittedly, that was a bit of an experiment.) Or another popular trick is to take a favorite book that you've read 10 times, get the French translation, and use that for your next re-read. You'll be able to understand a lot just from context.

mastrinka wrote:If I don't have materials prepared I usually fail to cross that small barrier of deciding "where to look now".

With native materials, the answer to this question is:

  • "Two more episodes of the series I'm watching!"
  • "10 more pages of my book!"

Brun Ugle wrote:Since you're studying French, I would recommend that you check out the forum's excellent French study group. There are people there at all levels and I'm sure they could suggest materials that they found useful at your level.

Yes, especially for students of French! The people on this forum can give ridiculously detailed recommendations. If you ask, "Well, what I'm really looking for are easy graphic novels about vampires," then somebody might respond, "Could you narrow that down a bit? Would you like vampires in the Old West, or moody vampires, or something with more horror?" It's still going to take some effort to find the perfect book for a particular A2 French student, but there's no reason you need to read something boring or painfully difficult.

We're here to help encourage your media addictions. ;-)
10 x

mastrinka
White Belt
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:41 pm
Languages: Croatian (N) English (intermediate), Spanish (beginner), Japanese (beginner)
x 47

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby mastrinka » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:47 pm

Brun Ugle wrote:Since you're studying French, I would recommend that you check out the forum's excellent French study group. There are people there at all levels and I'm sure they could suggest materials that they found useful at your level. They can also give you support and encouragement when dealing with the frustration of learning a language. Learning a language is often slow and frustrating, especially the first few. Those who manage to learn a language are those who keep going in spite of the difficulties.

I also wouldn't be too afraid to jump into native materials as others have suggested. You just have to approach it in the right manner. If you focus on the happiness and excitement you feel every time you understand something, it is a lot of fun and very motivating. But if you focus on all the things you don't understand and the disappointment you might feel over not understanding them, then you will quickly lose motivation. When I started Spanish, I used the FSI courses and a few other materials, but I also started watching a telenovela very early on. I didn't really understand a lot in the beginning, but the acting and the predictable nature of telenovelas, plus the words that I did understand, allowed me to follow the story and get hooked. And I found it very exciting whenever I understood several whole sentences in a row. I continued with my course books at the same time, of course, and by the time I got to the end of the telenovela (300 episodes), I could understand nearly everything with very little effort. Now, I'm still studying more advanced materials, but also watching TV shows and reading books.


Thanks for the group link, I've checked it out and I've already found some great links.
It makes a lot of sense what you've said about jumping into native materials, that it's all matter of an attitude.
I had been teaching maths to kids for a while and I have found out that all those kids that have problems are those who just have too big expectations of themselves in the beginning. Usually once they see that neither I don't know all the answers at first glance, they start to participate actively and make progress. It was obvious to me in the math field, but I didn't realize that I am doing the same with learning a language.
Actually, when I set that expectation aside, I find it actually enjoyable to try to find out the meaning of shorter native texts form the web.
Thanks a lot! :)
2 x

mastrinka
White Belt
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:41 pm
Languages: Croatian (N) English (intermediate), Spanish (beginner), Japanese (beginner)
x 47

Re: Where to go after finishing a language course?

Postby mastrinka » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:13 pm

emk wrote:Yes, especially for students of French! The people on this forum can give ridiculously detailed recommendations. If you ask, "Well, what I'm really looking for are easy graphic novels about vampires," then somebody might respond, "Could you narrow that down a bit? Would you like vampires in the Old West, or moody vampires, or something with more horror?" It's still going to take some effort to find the perfect book for a particular A2 French student, but there's no reason you need to read something boring or painfully difficult.

We're here to help encourage your media addictions. ;-)


:lol:
Hahaha, I really laughed on this one! :D Thanks! I've found that group really useful, and I hope I'll be able to participate in the future :)
0 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests