How often to use a tutor?

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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby tarvos » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:26 pm

Ah yes, timezones don't always sync up.
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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby lingua » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:56 pm

I'm another one that only wanted to converse up to now. But I'm planning to do more writing with one of the tutors in the future. Prior to the appointment I'll write on some subject and then we'll discuss and correct as necessary which is still going to involve conversation. I have tons of textbooks so unless I want clarification on some point I'm not interested in doing that during a session. In the past I've had new tutors that started off using worksheets but it was more of conversation starter than anything and once they realized that I am a competent speaker we conversed.

Sometimes it takes a few sessions to figure out someone isn't a good fit for you. You're the one paying so you need to make sure your sessions are working for you. If your vocabulary is limited the textbook might make sense in the beginning but with the intent of working up to more speaking. If being asked a lot of questions is uncomfortable for you then prepare some topics you'd like to discuss instead. Same with textbook. Come with questions.
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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby kraemder » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:43 am

I think if you like the textbook approach then go for it. Whatever you think is better is probably better. As you study more you'll probably change you mind on what's good for you and your studying accordingly.

I'm at about B2 level in Japanese and I booked a tutor for the first time in ages last week. I basically just talked at the tutor for about an hour about whatever I wanted to talk about and she made a few corrections but for the most part just paid attention and prompted me a little. This is the kind of lesson I wanted and I took charge of he lesson and I was very happy.

If I wanted to brush up my Spanish I might be in the same bind as you. I can't have a normal conversation right now. If I had a good tutor who could work with me by day doing a self introduction and then I mimicked him or her and the conversation proceeded such that I had an example to go off of every step of the way, then a conversation of sorts could work well as I used to know more Spanish but it's very rusty. But I don't know if many tutors could pull this off. Using a textbook would be a good option too I think. I have to say that the cheap italki Spanish tutor I tried a couple years ago just spoke English the whole time because I wasn't able to produce Spanish on my end. What a waste of time.

Just keep in mind that a decent tutor will be happy to listen to you talk about anything at all. It's not like a normal conversation where you need to keep topics mutually interesting or you'll lose the other person's interest. Their job is really just to get you talking so the more you talk the happier they are most of the time.
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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby Bex » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:24 pm

rdearman wrote:I don't know if you've read my log, but I'm doing the same thing as you, but in French. I've found that it is helpful to have more than one community tutor to switch between. I decided to have one French person, one Swiss, one Belgium, and I've booked a person from Morocco also. The idea is to get more accent exposure, although at the moment I can't really tell a difference.

I don't know what your level is, but if you're B1 or better you should be able to hold a conversation. I suspect that you feel like you are being interrogated because it is the only way for the native speaker to continue the conversation. In his book, Boris Shekhtman explains:
Short, simple answers hinder conversation because they very quickly transform communication into interrogation, making both the foreigner and the native speaker feel awkward.

Some tips for you which I feel are relevant:
  • Never give a short answer! Always be as verbose as you possibly can.
  • Try to end with a question when you speak, this allows you to take control of the conversation and not just be battered with questions.
  • Memorise some "islands" you can swim to. Some long bit of speaking which you have down pat and can rattle off for ages. Things like: Oh! It is funny that you asked where I'm from, because recently I went back to visit my parents and I encountered my best friend from high-school and you'll never believe it, he now owns a company ... Then you launch into a story about your best friend who started Google, or whatever. blah, blah blah.
  • Practice making your stock answers more verbose, so instead of "My name is X and I live in Y", change to "My name is X, but my mother calls me beanbag, because when I was young I swallowed a beanbag and had to go to the hospital to get it removed. I live near Y, but I'm really hoping to move out into the country because I feel that Y has too many traffic problems. What about traffic where you live?
  • Don't forget to learn filler words and phrases, things like: "Well it is clear to me that", "Without a doubt", "In my humble opinion", "What a great question, let me think about that for a second"

Also, I figure I'm paying so I always ask them:
  • Give corrections at the end unless I ask for it.
  • Don't speak to me in English unless I ask them to (and never ask them to)
  • Spend the last 5 minutes of the lesson giving me feedback on how I can improve (this could be in English if you need it)
  • Please wait for me to try and remember the word, if I can't remember I'll ask.

He who pays the piper, names the tune.


All the community tutors I've had on iTalki have been OK with this. Plus I'm only looking for conversation practice, so Mr. Textbook would go right in the rubbish bin for me. At the moment, I'm happy with one lesson a week and some "internal dialogue" practice during the rest of the week, although I'm now thinking about bumping up to 2 lessons per week for a little while.

As far as topics go, if you're struggling with vocabulary during your lessons, tell them to restrict the conversation about one subject, for example cooking. Then bone up on vocabulary related to cooking, and work up a "cooking island" which is your story about cooking you're going to steer into the conversation.

Bex wrote:Maybe I should change the question from "How often to use a tutor?" to "best way to use time with my tutor?"

Hopefully, some of that was useful to you. Although actually most of the above was the answer to this question: "How can I prepare myself better for the time I spend with a tutor."

Good Luck.


Thanks...really useful stuff to try and apply to my sessions. I shall be following your log with interest.
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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby Bex » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:36 pm

kraemder wrote:...As you study more you'll probably change you mind on what's good for you and your studying accordingly.

Undoubtedly, I am the master of changing my mind and study methods.

kraemder wrote: I have to say that the cheap italki Spanish tutor I tried a couple years ago just spoke English the whole time because I wasn't able to produce Spanish on my end. What a waste of time.

One of the tutors I decided not to use reverted straight to English in the lessons and as you say it's a complete waste of time, anyway that's why I quickly decided they were not the tutor for me.

I am able to cobble together sentences and have a conversation of sorts, although it's not great grammar wise, all the tutors have said my vocabulary is good and I really just need to practice speaking more. I was however able to hold a 45 minute conversation in Spanish on Thursday with one of my tutors which felt great :D
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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby tomgosse » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:50 am

rdearman wrote:I don't know if you've read my log, but I'm doing the same thing as you, but in French. I've found that it is helpful to have more than one community tutor to switch between. I decided to have one French person, one Swiss, one Belgium, and I've booked a person from Morocco also. The idea is to get more accent exposure, although at the moment I can't really tell a difference.

I don't know what your level is, but if you're B1 or better you should be able to hold a conversation. I suspect that you feel like you are being interrogated because it is the only way for the native speaker to continue the conversation. In his book, Boris Shekhtman explains:
Short, simple answers hinder conversation because they very quickly transform communication into interrogation, making both the foreigner and the native speaker feel awkward.

Some tips for you which I feel are relevant:
  • Never give a short answer! Always be as verbose as you possibly can.
  • Try to end with a question when you speak, this allows you to take control of the conversation and not just be battered with questions.
  • Memorise some "islands" you can swim to. Some long bit of speaking which you have down pat and can rattle off for ages. Things like: Oh! It is funny that you asked where I'm from, because recently I went back to visit my parents and I encountered my best friend from high-school and you'll never believe it, he now owns a company ... Then you launch into a story about your best friend who started Google, or whatever. blah, blah blah.
  • Practice making your stock answers more verbose, so instead of "My name is X and I live in Y", change to "My name is X, but my mother calls me beanbag, because when I was young I swallowed a beanbag and had to go to the hospital to get it removed. I live near Y, but I'm really hoping to move out into the country because I feel that Y has too many traffic problems. What about traffic where you live?
  • Don't forget to learn filler words and phrases, things like: "Well it is clear to me that", "Without a doubt", "In my humble opinion", "What a great question, let me think about that for a second"

Also, I figure I'm paying so I always ask them:
  • Give corrections at the end unless I ask for it.
  • Don't speak to me in English unless I ask them to (and never ask them to)
  • Spend the last 5 minutes of the lesson giving me feedback on how I can improve (this could be in English if you need it)
  • Please wait for me to try and remember the word, if I can't remember I'll ask.

He who pays the piper, names the tune.


I find this very interesting, and I have Shekhtman's book. But I did not know how to put it into practice. Then I found this link on Linguacore. The author gives step by step directions on how to build a language island. Be especially aware of the links in Section 1, Collecting elements. I hope to start building an "island" this week.

All the best,
Tom
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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby IronMike » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:47 am

Thanks for that link, Tom. That's great. I've been doing that over the years, unbeknownst to me it had a name! I feel bad for the person who brings up linguistics with me in Russian because I just keep going, and going, and going...

I would caution folks using this method in prep for language tests (orals). At least for the DLPT (which I know few here get to take), but if the examinee starts speaking fluently about one topic, the examiner will almost immediately interrupt and get you on another topic. Granted, I've not taken any oral exams except the DLPT (hopefully I'll take the KER oral exam in the future), but I would have to think that other tests are similar.

That's not to say having language islands is a bad thing. In fact it is a very good thing, in my book. I'd go a bit farther, and suggest one should expand the other islands Luca recommends. I'd say everyone should be able to talk about 5 areas in their language: Family, Occupation, Recreation, Travel, About yourself, or FORTA.

I can't take credit for FORTA. My last Russian teacher in the states told me about it. Perhaps all DLPT-qualified examiners know this? Anyway, I've written up a FORTA for my languages and worked on memorizing them. Doesn't mean I get very far into them when the test starts, but they are language islands I can go back to when I need them.

My teacher also had me write up a couple funny stories from my life that I could pull out if needed during the test, and these stories came in handy. I haven't looked at them for a few years, but I just opened one up and the Russian came back to me quickly. And with some review, I could probably have one or both of these stories at the ready.

Now on to formally creating some islands in Russian and Esperanto!
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Re: How often to use a tutor?

Postby Bex » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:25 am

Language Islands seem like a very interesting idea, and thanks to Tom for the link on how to build a language island, some very useful stuff there.

I am still torn between as many "just chatting" sessions a week as possible and a "tutor" once or twice a week, which I think would mostly improve my grammar and possibly my confidence.

As far a I can see the opinions so far are...
a) this is not your first language and therefore you can teach yourself with preferred methods - talking practice sessions only preffered.
b) first foreign language learnt (us newbies) - tutor seems to be preferred option (to lead the way).

With either a or b student the consensus seems to be that the answer to my question is....to improve speaking, speak as much as possible :D
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