basic words

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sobhan
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basic words

Postby sobhan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:08 am

I am looking for a basic word list which a beginner can start thinking with those words in any language(i assume this word list is independent of language)they want to learn.
I searched in the internet for it but did not find anything so if anyone know a book or whatever which has got a such thing please help me with it.
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emk
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Re: basic words

Postby emk » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:13 am

sobhan wrote:I am looking for a basic word list which a beginner can start thinking with those words in any language(i assume this word list is independent of language)they want to learn.

These lists do exist. This one is not too horrible, at first glance.

But I honestly don't think these lists are a good way to start learning a foreign language. We've seen several people on the forum use these lists over the years, and they've never made it very far.

I think a bit part of the problem is that the most common words in any language tend to be (1) highly irregular compared to the rest of the language, (2) extremely idiomatic, and (3) hard to fully understand without also understanding the basic grammar of the language. So especially for the most important and common words, it's fairly useless—or even counterproductive—to learn them outside of their natural context. I suspect this is doubly true for somebody who's never learned a foreign language before.

Personally, I'd prefer to use a course like Assimil, which combined short bilingual texts and audio in the beginning, and use that to learn at least 500 common words and get a "feel" for how the language fits together. After that, I'd learn useful vocabulary as I ran into it.

Another reasonable approach might be to start with a travelers phrasebook, especially if you can find one with audio recordings. I know that's how Benny Lewis starts, because he prefers to speak as soon as humanly possible. But again, a phrasebook will teach you the basic words in a natural context.
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sobhan
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Re: basic words

Postby sobhan » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:39 am

What i am looking for is a list which covers high amount of meanings and try to think with those words in an unstructured way so that i get working alot with the language then try to add grammer and more vocab to it.
Do you think this approach is a good one?
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issemiyaki
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Re: basic words

Postby issemiyaki » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:41 am

I would not start with a "word list" as a beginner.

I'd saying learning a language is a bit like dating. You never know what you're getting yourself in for. You go out with a guy a few times, and if you like him, you continue seeing him. If you don't like him, you stop seeing him.

Same with language learning. Try out several programs, Assimil, Linguaphone, etc., and these programs all have "the most basic" words in them already.

Yes, you might have to tolerate a few chapters about traveling or eating out, but pay close attention to how the language is USED. The inner workings are the same no matter what you're talking about.

Most importantly, you'll be learning words in context. If you're going to be using any lists, they should probably be the lists you make yourself from what you've read. Never write a word down in isolation. Always write down the word with an example sentence showcasing how the word is used, its corresponding preposition, and whatever other information you want to attach to it.
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Re: basic words

Postby Cavesa » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:21 pm

sobhan wrote:What i am looking for is a list which covers high amount of meanings and try to think with those words in an unstructured way so that i get working alot with the language then try to add grammer and more vocab to it.
Do you think this approach is a good one?


No, I don't think this approach is a good one for several reasons.

1."Thinking with the words in unstructured way" is useless. The value of the words is in using them within a structure. From my observation, the only thing beginners starting from wordlists without any grammar learn are mistakes. And already learnt mistakes are much harder to relearn correctly later. You are not "working with the language" until you can make a sentence in my opinion.

2.Context helps with learning and memorisation. Examples are extremely helpful, using the words helps. Sure, many of us use SRS to learn lists of words, but always as a complement to something else.

3.From my experience, it is easier to learn the basic grammar solidly with small vocabulary first and then add vocab than the other way around. Grammar is not something to worry about and postpone. It is the way the language works. You can be making your own simple sentences extremely soon. If you want your learning style to be very vocabulary heavy, which is definitely an option, you can always use many words in every new structure you learn.

4.Careful about wordlists. Emk is absolutely right. The most common words tend to be irregular and idiomatic, or require some grammar knowledge for better understanding of their use. And not all the frequency lists are based on the same sources. For example, there are wordlists based on newspapers and those are not likely to be that useful to a usual beginner. A high quality coursebook will give you a nice base to start from, you can (and will need to) always add more to it or skip words you especially dislike :-)
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MorkTheFiddle
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Re: basic words

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:32 pm

Which language do you want to learn? Once or while you learn basic vocabulary, what will be your next step? Learning a list of basic words might not be the way to get started, but the list could be a good check list after a few weeks or months of learning.
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reineke
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Re: basic words

Postby reineke » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:27 pm

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jimmyy
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Re: basic words

Postby jimmyy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:29 pm

sobhan wrote:I am looking for a basic word list which a beginner can start thinking with those words in any language(i assume this word list is independent of language)they want to learn.
I searched in the internet for it but did not find anything so if anyone know a book or whatever which has got a such thing please help me with it.


Hi,

For the simple words (e.g. yes, no, hi, hello) you can learn them directly without a context. However most of the words need be learned in a context. But the context can be only a few words, it does not need to be a whole novel. For me "How are you? I'm fine thank you" is enough to be a context of it's own.

So you shouldn't be afraid of learning new words in a context.

As a language learner, and provider of language lessons (free online) I have gathered a list of basic words. They are virtually the same in every language, even though there can be differences.

You always need to start with the very basic words: yes, no, hello, thank you...
Then the greetings, good morning... , followed by how to introduce yourself.., numbers, colors
Of course the two most common verbs, to be and to have

This is just to start with. Most language text books follow this type of structure.
I can send you the link to the course that I'm developing. Just send me a private message.

Where I do not join the others is that initially you just need to have a taste for a particular language and you basically do not care that much about the grammar. And grammar itself can be quite scary for many people, since they do not understand the difference between an adjective and an adverb, or do not have the patience to learn it. I like grammar, because I have an analytical mindset but I understand that most people are reluctant to study grammar.

I hope this helps
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