Is Isolated Kanji Learning Possible?

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DangerDave2010
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Re: Is Isolated Kanji Learning Possible?

Postby DangerDave2010 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:58 pm

I suppose it is not only possible but also very quick and easy. But I would not attempt to build stories Heisig style, cause I would not want to fill up my mind with (or waste my time with) those stories. If you are able to recognise the componentes, visual imprinting will work fair enough, you don't need to think too much about it.
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Re: Is Isolated Kanji Learning Possible?

Postby kraemder » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:07 pm

With the point of view in mind that you're not going to study Japanese for maybe five years I think that RTK is the best way to go until you're ready to actually study Japanese. And RTK will definitely help you later although going from English keywords to thinking in Japanese is going to take a really long time and effort. Since you're going to be studying another language for the next several years, studying Japanese on top of that is probably not a good idea which makes the argument to just use RTK much stronger. Now, if you weren't going to study a completely different language, then I'd look at options of learning Japanese vocabulary along with kanji etc. Maybe you still could do that, but then I think you'd basically be studying two languages at once, and one of them at least is very very difficult for native English speakers (Japanese).
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Re: Is Isolated Kanji Learning Possible?

Postby Raconteur » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:44 pm

Cainntear wrote:I see it almost as a sort of "pre-learning" -- you never master the item that way, but you do sort of "file" it in some way that makes it easier to learn properly later [...] So learn things in isolation if you need to, but remember that it won't get you much further than the very start.
Yes, I agree. This would indeed be "pre-learning" - you nailed it.
I will not know Japanese afterwards, but I will be doing something to potentially help me learn Japanese later on in life. Emphasis on potentially, because frankly I am still not sure if learning Kanji in isolation over the next few years would really work (that is, work well enough for the benefits to outweigh the cost of a consistent, long-term effort).
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Re: Is Isolated Kanji Learning Possible?

Postby Raconteur » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:52 pm

kraemder wrote:Since you're going to be studying another language for the next several years, studying Japanese on top of that is probably not a good idea which makes the argument to just use RTK much stronger. [...] Maybe you still could do that, but then I think you'd basically be studying two languages at once, and one of them at least is very very difficult for native English speakers (Japanese).
Yes, exactly, I would like to avoid learning Japanese alongside another language. I know that some of the readers here study multiple languages simultaneously. However, as for me, tacking a language as difficult as Japanese would require my full attention.

cont. wrote:RTK will definitely help you later although going from English keywords to thinking in Japanese is going to take a really long time and effort.
Could you elaborate? Not sure if I understood. Do you think that using RTK leads to some extra burden in terms of "overcoming" the attachment to English meanings? Or, do you simply mean to say that there's still a looong way to learning the language after tackling Kanji?

While RTK seems enticing, and a good fit for my needs, I wouldn't want to rely on a technique that will block me later on. What do you guys think?
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Re: Is Isolated Kanji Learning Possible?

Postby lavengro » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:12 pm

Raconteur wrote:
While RTK seems enticing, and a good fit for my needs, I wouldn't want to rely on a technique that will block me later on. What do you guys think?


I am working through RTK at present and would be really disappointed if the answer were to be that the keyword associated with each (or any) kanji is unrelated in any way to any of meanings that kanji actually has. If Heisig's keyword were nothing but a memory tag which is semantically not relevant, I would consider that to be a technique that would be really unhelpful, as you would have to unlearn the keyword when actually getting to the reading of the kanji.

My understanding from what I have read is that the keyword is at least generally related to (one of potentially several) meanings associated with the kanji, and that while Heisig won't get you through the gate, the technique will at least drop you off in the parking lot with a ticket in hand. Keeping fingers crossed while waiting to hear from someone who has been through it.
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Re: Is Isolated Kanji Learning Possible?

Postby kraemder » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:10 am

Raconteur wrote:
kraemder wrote:Since you're going to be studying another language for the next several years, studying Japanese on top of that is probably not a good idea which makes the argument to just use RTK much stronger. [...] Maybe you still could do that, but then I think you'd basically be studying two languages at once, and one of them at least is very very difficult for native English speakers (Japanese).
Yes, exactly, I would like to avoid learning Japanese alongside another language. I know that some of the readers here study multiple languages simultaneously. However, as for me, tacking a language as difficult as Japanese would require my full attention.

cont. wrote:RTK will definitely help you later although going from English keywords to thinking in Japanese is going to take a really long time and effort.
Could you elaborate? Not sure if I understood. Do you think that using RTK leads to some extra burden in terms of "overcoming" the attachment to English meanings? Or, do you simply mean to say that there's still a looong way to learning the language after tackling Kanji?

While RTK seems enticing, and a good fit for my needs, I wouldn't want to rely on a technique that will block me later on. What do you guys think?



The latter - it would be helpful but you still have a ways to go before you look at a pictorial representation of a concept or thing and instead of thinking of an associated word, you're thinking in a foreign language. You get there eventually but it takes a lot of repetition. Personally, I don't put too much effort into memorizing the keywords but rather the meanings - the keywords are generally good and don't hurt but if you are testing yourself with flashcards and think of a synonym then who cares - the end goal is to be thinking in Japanese anyway right. But I definitely found that kanji where I very confidently knew the meaning were much easier to to learn the corresponding Japanese than learning Japanese to go with kanji whose meaning I didn't yet know at all and therefore couldn't properly recognize the kanji in any way really. Of course, the more you study kanji, the better your brain gets at absorbing new kanji just through its overall shape.
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