Consonants in Modern Hebrew

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voodie
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Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby voodie » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:18 pm

To all Hebrew speakers here!

Here's a question that has been intriguing me for some time. I know that in today's Israel you don't normally distinguish between "א" and "ע" or between "ח" and "כ" in everyday speech. But how would you react to a foreigner who does distinguish them, pronouncing gutturals the way they used to sound?
Will it be considered too correct or snobbish? Or will it immediately come off as a Mizrahi accent and therefore a less prestigious variety?
It's your immediate associations that I'm interested in.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby tarvos » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:36 pm

As far as I know, it would either be a very particular accent (and why would you want to copy that?), or just plain unnecessary.

To me it sounds like you were trying to pronounce the sounds in a liturgical way.

But, then again, I'm not Israeli - not even Jewish.
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby Josquin » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:49 pm

As far as I know, these sounds are only distinguished by Biblical scholars and Mizrahi Jews. So, I guess you'd sound pretty weird to the average Israeli. I don't know if it will sound hypercorrect or snobbish, but it will definitely come across as some sort of accent.

But then again, I'm not an Israeli or a Jew either, so take this answer with a grain of salt.
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby AmitS » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:58 pm

As a native Israeli, I can say from my experience that people who distinguish between these letters pronunciation in their colloquial life are considered by Israelis to be a 'Mizrahi', religious jews or even Israeli Arabs (as an accent like that is very similar to an Arabic accent).
Thus, to your question I don't think it will be considered snobbish or too correct to speak that way, as people would think you belong to a specific type of ethnic group. However, as you said, it is not customary to speak that way in today's daily conversations.

Btw, it is interesting for me to know why have you decided to learn Hebrew? Do you love the language / the culture?
(Cause it is very rare seeing someone outside of Israel learns Hebrew - especially in light of the fact that Israel is not politically popular in the world).
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby voodie » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:37 pm

AmitS wrote:As a native Israeli, I can say from my experience that people who distinguish between these letters pronunciation in their colloquial life are considered by Israelis to be a 'Mizrahi', religious jews or even Israeli Arabs (as an accent like that is very similar to an Arabic accent).
Thus, to your question I don't think it will be considered snobbish or too correct to speak that way, as people would think you belong to a specific type of ethnic group. However, as you said, it is not customary to speak that way in today's daily conversations.

Btw, it is interesting for me to know why have you decided to learn Hebrew? Do you love the language / the culture?
(Cause it is very rare seeing someone outside of Israel learns Hebrew - especially in light of the fact that Israel is not politically popular in the world).


So, religious Jews make this distinction, as well?

As for your question, my interest in Hebrew is caused by different factors. Apart from being fascinated by the Jewish culture, I'm getting more and more interested in the religious aspects, too. Plus, I've studied Arabic, so there are many similarities (except it would be much easier, if you guys did pronounce the "ayin" :D )
As for the politics - I do support Israel. But even if I didn't, it would be a shame to disregard 3000 years of incredible intellectual tradition because of something so trivial.
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby AmitS » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:34 pm

voodie wrote:So, religious Jews do distinguish between them, as well?

Most of them, from what I've seen (Maybe they are 'Mizrahim' so I can't tell. I guess then it is not necessarily related to them specifically). By saying religious jews I mean to the ones with the beards, who are more punctilious than the ones with only the 'Kippa'.

voodie wrote:Plus, I've studied Arabic, so there are many similarities (except it would be much easier, if you guys did pronounce the "ayin" :D )

So as you can understand now, today we do not customarily pronounce "ע" on its formal pronunciation in speech. So yes, therefore this is a disadvantage for you ;)
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby voodie » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:27 am

Ok, thank you!

One more question, if I may. What about the possessive suffixes? I know that one often substitutes them with "shel" in everyday speech.
But what would be your reaction to a phrase like "אני רוצה להיפגש עם חבריי"?
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby AmitS » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:43 am

voodie wrote:Ok, thank you!

One more question, if I may. What about the possessive suffixes? I know that one often substitutes them with "shel" in everyday speech.
But what would be your reaction to a phrase like "אני רוצה להיפגש עם חבריי"?

Formally, it's okay using this phrase as well. However, as you said, adding the word "shel - של" approach is more customary to use in today's daily conversations, and even so in the written language.

Generally, I guess that if you say your suggested sentence to an Israeli, assuming that he doesn't know you are learning the language, he would think you are a weirdo/nerd (because from my experience, using "חבריי" instead of "חברים שלי", or any not-used word instead of used, would be considered by the Israeli society to a one who is a weirdo/nerd - because of his preference to choose using the not-used word instead of the used).

Btw, this specific customary sentence is easier for an English speaker, because it has the same structure as the equivalent English sentence.
This sentence will be looked like this: "אני רוצה להיפגש עם חברים שלי", which has also the same structure as the equivalent English sentence: "I want to meet up with my friends". I mean, if you use the combination "חבריי" instead, you don't have the word "my - שלי" in the sentence.


Also, not related to your question, if I may, I want to start soon the Language Exchange method in English, by using HelloTalk and/or Italki apps, in order to improve and getting use to speak naturally (without thinking like a half an hour considering how to say properly what I wanna say). Also, oral/colloquial practice, by voice messaging and/or even actual conversations, would be great. In return, I can help you with Hebrew if you are interested :)
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Re: Consonants in Modern Hebrew

Postby voodie » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:39 am

AmitS wrote:
Also, not related to your question, if I may, I want to start soon the Language Exchange method in English, by using HelloTalk and/or Italki apps, in order to improve and getting use to speak naturally (without thinking like a half an hour considering how to say properly what I wanna say). Also, oral/colloquial practice, by voice messaging and/or even actual conversations, would be great. In return, I can help you with Hebrew if you are interested :)


I'm not a native speaker, but of course I'd be happy to help. I just need to figure out how these apps work, since I've never used them before. But feel free to contact me when you start :)
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