Good day all,
I was offered a job in Germany, that if accepted, would take me there for roughly 5 years. If so, my Spanish learning will have to take a back seat to German. Since I haven't attempted to learn a language from scratch since high school, I'm not sure on my course of action.
The local library as well as the nearest military base doesn't have Pimsleur German which is where I wanted to start off. I know absolutely zero German. So, I was curious if LL German or Assimil German would be too difficult to begin with? I've thought about trying duolingo, Paul Noble, or something like that to get started with but wanted some input first. I spent a ton on learning Spanish and do not plan on doing that again. Just one or two things before native materials/tv shows.
Many thanks for your ideas.
Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
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ShawnP
- Orange Belt
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Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
3 x
German Goals starting 8 April 2024
: 500 Hours in German (Audio, Video, Books)
: 500 Hours in German (Audio, Video, Books)
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IronMike
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Tested:
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Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
Congrats and very jealous. Been trying to get back to Germany (more or less permanently) since leaving there in April 1992.
3 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.
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gsbod
- Blue Belt
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Spanish (learning) - Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=1152
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Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
If you could find me a job in Germany too, it would be much appreciated!
Back to your question... Check out the learning materials on the Deutsche Welle website (dw.de) - these should meet your needs for some initial exposure and are free of charge. I particularly liked Radio D and Warum Nicht? when I was a beginner.
While your aim to get into native materials as soon as possible is a good one, you are unlikely to get to grips with the grammar through exposure alone so once you've made progress with some of the free stuff from DW it would probably be worth investing in a textbook. I really like the Begegnungen series, which are cost effective, come complete with audio and answer book, and have tonnes of exercises suitable for self study. There is no shortage of decent learning materials for German, so maybe a trip to a good bookshop when you get to Germany will help!
Back to your question... Check out the learning materials on the Deutsche Welle website (dw.de) - these should meet your needs for some initial exposure and are free of charge. I particularly liked Radio D and Warum Nicht? when I was a beginner.
While your aim to get into native materials as soon as possible is a good one, you are unlikely to get to grips with the grammar through exposure alone so once you've made progress with some of the free stuff from DW it would probably be worth investing in a textbook. I really like the Begegnungen series, which are cost effective, come complete with audio and answer book, and have tonnes of exercises suitable for self study. There is no shortage of decent learning materials for German, so maybe a trip to a good bookshop when you get to Germany will help!
4 x
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DaveBee
- Blue Belt
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- x 1386
Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
I've not learnt German, but I have been window-shopping some German courses recently.ShawnP wrote:Good day all,
I was offered a job in Germany, that if accepted, would take me there for roughly 5 years. If so, my Spanish learning will have to take a back seat to German. Since I haven't attempted to learn a language from scratch since high school, I'm not sure on my course of action.
The local library as well as the nearest military base doesn't have Pimsleur German which is where I wanted to start off. I know absolutely zero German. So, I was curious if LL German or Assimil German would be too difficult to begin with? I've thought about trying duolingo, Paul Noble, or something like that to get started with but wanted some input first. I spent a ton on learning Spanish and do not plan on doing that again. Just one or two things before native materials/tv shows.
Many thanks for your ideas.
The one I liked the look of was Langesheidt's >A2 German in 30 Days course, followed up, if you liked it, with their >B2 advanced course.
1 x
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Speakeasy
- x 7660
Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
First, please allow me to second IronMike’s expression of envy.
Second, to a certain extent, recommendations should take into consideration how much time you have before your relocation and how many hours a day you can devote to studying German. Nevertheless, as you would be starting at the Introductory level and already have experience in learning a foreign language, you have the advantage of having a sound idea of what the better materials available are as well as having a great attitude towards your project.
Third, it is quite likely that, while studying Spanish, you discovered that there are simply too many good materials for learning the basics of this language. Well, the same situation exists for studying German. As to your specific questions:
Paul Noble German
Paul Noble German is a shortened version of the Michel Thomas German course. It will not take you very far at all. Its only advantage over the MT Method is that Paul had the good sense to employ a native speaker of German in the recordings of the example words, phrases and sentences. Unfortunately, in this all-audio method (which was derived from MT Method), Paul’s instructions and self-congratulatory expressions of his huge success as a teacher take up the major part of the recordings. For this reason, my recommendation is that, even if you were able to locate a free copy (they abound on the Internet), you should not waste your valuable time with these materials.
Michel Thomas German
While the MT Method is reasonably sound for its all-audio presentation of the basic notions of how present tense and past tense verbs are formed in German, I hold the minority view that the delivery is rather poor. None of the speakers on the recordings are native-speakers of German (neither Michel nor his students) and, in my opinion, it does not help the student to be presented with examples of poor pronunciation, particularly in the initial stages. Many forum members disagree with me on this and believe that the soundness of the method compensates the poor pronunciation.
Pimsleur German
I have used the Pimsleur Method for all of the languages that I have studied. While I enjoyed its S--L--O--W introduction to the basics of the target language and although I continue to recognize all of its strengths, I have come to the conclusion that the greatest benefit of using this method is derived during Phases I and II. So then, while I recognize that the materials in Phases III, IV and V are quite sound and will be of genuine assistance to the student, owing to the pace of instruction, I would recommend that one cease using these materials after Phase II and opt for something with more “meat on the bone”, such as: Assimil, Linguaphone, Living Language, FSI, DLI, et cetera.
Living Language German
Given the options for this language, I would simply not bother with the latest generation of the Living Language German, Complete Edition course. In my view, it is a poorly-conceived marriage of two distinct courses. The Living Language Ultimate series (Beginners-Intermediate, Advanced) is superior in every respect. The language is introduced through dialogues which take place in predictable situations that a visitor to a German-speaking land would likely encounter. The accompanying notes are pre-eminent examples of conciseness and clarity. However, while the accompanying eight CDs provide in the neighborhood of 8 hours of audio recordings, in my view, the exercise materials lack a certain “je ne sais quoi” about them. That is, despite the laudable efforts of the author, there does not seem to be sufficient material in support of the dialogues. So then, should you select this course, I would recommend that you accompany it with Assimil German for added practice and variety. By the way, “yes”, you can begin your studies directly with this course; that is, without preparation gained through Paul Nobel, Michel Thomas, Pimsleur and the like.
Assimil German
As you are probably aware, the Assimil method introduces the target language through the presentation of some 100 short dialogues. Unlike many other courses, the Assimil dialogues do not have any discernable pattern, thereby leaving some users with the impression that the method lacks focus and structure. Some users experience difficulty visualizing themselves as active participants in the dialogues. I would counter: “thar’s gold in them hills!” That is, for me, the succession of dialogues mimics, to a certain extent, the disjointed conversations that we all encounter in real life, hence the strength of the method. In addition, the very nature of the dialogues, short by design, provides the student with something akin to sentence-pattern exercises even though they were not designed as such. The only “issue” that I have with this method is the nature of the accompanying notes. Whereas they do contain some gems of information concerning colloquial use that are often not present in many other introductory courses, the manner in which the notes present the underlying grammatical issues is rather opaque. For this reason, I always recommend that one accompany the Assimil courses with a simple grammar. I would note also that Assimil has “second level” courses which are available in several bases but, sadly, not in English. By the way, “yes”, you can begin your studies directly with this course; that is, without preparation gained through Paul Nobel, Michel Thomas, Pimsleur and the like.
FSI and DLI materials
The FSI German and DLI German courses are freely available via the FSI-Languages website. The “basic” courses of the 1960’s and 1970’s employ the “audio-lingual method” which has both supporters and detractors. Despite the age of these materials, I fall into the former camp. Unless you are already familiar with the approach, please be advised that these courses require seemingly endless hours of practice of sentence-pattern exercises. While these courses are designed for classroom instruction and although one should be able to begin one’s studies directly from the first lesson, my recommendation would be that one acquire a very basic level of knowledge of the target language beforehand: Paul Noble, Michel Thomas, Pimsleur.
Other Materials?
Far too many to list.
Final Recommendation:
Pimsleur German I, II (plus simple grammar)
Assimil German (plus simple grammar)
DW (plus dictionary)
EDITED:
Correction to a surprising-to-me number of typographical errors.
Second, to a certain extent, recommendations should take into consideration how much time you have before your relocation and how many hours a day you can devote to studying German. Nevertheless, as you would be starting at the Introductory level and already have experience in learning a foreign language, you have the advantage of having a sound idea of what the better materials available are as well as having a great attitude towards your project.
Third, it is quite likely that, while studying Spanish, you discovered that there are simply too many good materials for learning the basics of this language. Well, the same situation exists for studying German. As to your specific questions:
Paul Noble German
Paul Noble German is a shortened version of the Michel Thomas German course. It will not take you very far at all. Its only advantage over the MT Method is that Paul had the good sense to employ a native speaker of German in the recordings of the example words, phrases and sentences. Unfortunately, in this all-audio method (which was derived from MT Method), Paul’s instructions and self-congratulatory expressions of his huge success as a teacher take up the major part of the recordings. For this reason, my recommendation is that, even if you were able to locate a free copy (they abound on the Internet), you should not waste your valuable time with these materials.
Michel Thomas German
While the MT Method is reasonably sound for its all-audio presentation of the basic notions of how present tense and past tense verbs are formed in German, I hold the minority view that the delivery is rather poor. None of the speakers on the recordings are native-speakers of German (neither Michel nor his students) and, in my opinion, it does not help the student to be presented with examples of poor pronunciation, particularly in the initial stages. Many forum members disagree with me on this and believe that the soundness of the method compensates the poor pronunciation.
Pimsleur German
I have used the Pimsleur Method for all of the languages that I have studied. While I enjoyed its S--L--O--W introduction to the basics of the target language and although I continue to recognize all of its strengths, I have come to the conclusion that the greatest benefit of using this method is derived during Phases I and II. So then, while I recognize that the materials in Phases III, IV and V are quite sound and will be of genuine assistance to the student, owing to the pace of instruction, I would recommend that one cease using these materials after Phase II and opt for something with more “meat on the bone”, such as: Assimil, Linguaphone, Living Language, FSI, DLI, et cetera.
Living Language German
Given the options for this language, I would simply not bother with the latest generation of the Living Language German, Complete Edition course. In my view, it is a poorly-conceived marriage of two distinct courses. The Living Language Ultimate series (Beginners-Intermediate, Advanced) is superior in every respect. The language is introduced through dialogues which take place in predictable situations that a visitor to a German-speaking land would likely encounter. The accompanying notes are pre-eminent examples of conciseness and clarity. However, while the accompanying eight CDs provide in the neighborhood of 8 hours of audio recordings, in my view, the exercise materials lack a certain “je ne sais quoi” about them. That is, despite the laudable efforts of the author, there does not seem to be sufficient material in support of the dialogues. So then, should you select this course, I would recommend that you accompany it with Assimil German for added practice and variety. By the way, “yes”, you can begin your studies directly with this course; that is, without preparation gained through Paul Nobel, Michel Thomas, Pimsleur and the like.
Assimil German
As you are probably aware, the Assimil method introduces the target language through the presentation of some 100 short dialogues. Unlike many other courses, the Assimil dialogues do not have any discernable pattern, thereby leaving some users with the impression that the method lacks focus and structure. Some users experience difficulty visualizing themselves as active participants in the dialogues. I would counter: “thar’s gold in them hills!” That is, for me, the succession of dialogues mimics, to a certain extent, the disjointed conversations that we all encounter in real life, hence the strength of the method. In addition, the very nature of the dialogues, short by design, provides the student with something akin to sentence-pattern exercises even though they were not designed as such. The only “issue” that I have with this method is the nature of the accompanying notes. Whereas they do contain some gems of information concerning colloquial use that are often not present in many other introductory courses, the manner in which the notes present the underlying grammatical issues is rather opaque. For this reason, I always recommend that one accompany the Assimil courses with a simple grammar. I would note also that Assimil has “second level” courses which are available in several bases but, sadly, not in English. By the way, “yes”, you can begin your studies directly with this course; that is, without preparation gained through Paul Nobel, Michel Thomas, Pimsleur and the like.
FSI and DLI materials
The FSI German and DLI German courses are freely available via the FSI-Languages website. The “basic” courses of the 1960’s and 1970’s employ the “audio-lingual method” which has both supporters and detractors. Despite the age of these materials, I fall into the former camp. Unless you are already familiar with the approach, please be advised that these courses require seemingly endless hours of practice of sentence-pattern exercises. While these courses are designed for classroom instruction and although one should be able to begin one’s studies directly from the first lesson, my recommendation would be that one acquire a very basic level of knowledge of the target language beforehand: Paul Noble, Michel Thomas, Pimsleur.
Other Materials?
Far too many to list.
Final Recommendation:
Pimsleur German I, II (plus simple grammar)
Assimil German (plus simple grammar)
DW (plus dictionary)
EDITED:
Correction to a surprising-to-me number of typographical errors.
9 x
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Cavesa
- Black Belt - 4th Dan
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- x 17637
Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
Congratulations!
LL German: I was interested in the course and quite disgusted with what I found out about it. Their old courses were awesome, the new ones seem to be just a way to milk the good reputation. The price/value ratio is extremely poor, you can get to the same level of one third for the price and perhaps more comfortably. And I don't think anyone should pay for false advertisement, such as calling an A2 course "Advanced".
Assimil German: It is great. But I found the learning curve quite steep. With a disheartening jump around lesson 20 (not sure about the exact number now). I would definitely recommend it, but preferably in combination with another course.
Audio alternatives to Pimsleur: Language transfer is making a course, but so slowly that you might be back from Germany by the time it is complete. The Deutsche Welle website has various good quality resources. Coffee Break German seems to be quite popular, or at least the other language versions of it. There is always the Germanpod101 but I must say I didn't like it much, it was boring and not too efficient, as far as I could tell.
FSI: It is obviously a great method, but the course is seriously outdated. Some people say you can learn from it and later learn the correct spelling (plus vocabulary or anything that has changed a lot since the creation), but I see no reason to learn stuff twice, if I don't necessarily have to. However, the initial chapters on pronunciation with the huge amount of drills were awesome. Dry, but very efficient.
Themen Aktuell: My favourite course series. A textbook with cd, and a workbook which is bilingual, includes explanations, exericses, and key. The series took some features from the modern course style, but didn't resign on being systematic and demanding. But of course, there are many general courses, and perhaps you'll prefer advice from someone more advanced than I am (somewhere around A2)
LL German: I was interested in the course and quite disgusted with what I found out about it. Their old courses were awesome, the new ones seem to be just a way to milk the good reputation. The price/value ratio is extremely poor, you can get to the same level of one third for the price and perhaps more comfortably. And I don't think anyone should pay for false advertisement, such as calling an A2 course "Advanced".
Assimil German: It is great. But I found the learning curve quite steep. With a disheartening jump around lesson 20 (not sure about the exact number now). I would definitely recommend it, but preferably in combination with another course.
Audio alternatives to Pimsleur: Language transfer is making a course, but so slowly that you might be back from Germany by the time it is complete. The Deutsche Welle website has various good quality resources. Coffee Break German seems to be quite popular, or at least the other language versions of it. There is always the Germanpod101 but I must say I didn't like it much, it was boring and not too efficient, as far as I could tell.
FSI: It is obviously a great method, but the course is seriously outdated. Some people say you can learn from it and later learn the correct spelling (plus vocabulary or anything that has changed a lot since the creation), but I see no reason to learn stuff twice, if I don't necessarily have to. However, the initial chapters on pronunciation with the huge amount of drills were awesome. Dry, but very efficient.
Themen Aktuell: My favourite course series. A textbook with cd, and a workbook which is bilingual, includes explanations, exericses, and key. The series took some features from the modern course style, but didn't resign on being systematic and demanding. But of course, there are many general courses, and perhaps you'll prefer advice from someone more advanced than I am (somewhere around A2)
3 x
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ShawnP
- Orange Belt
- Posts: 177
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- Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3123
- x 571
Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
@ Ironmike, I've been through a few times while stationed in England in the mid-late 90's so I'm hoping the future employer and I can settle on salary.
@ gsbod, I'll give them a look. I've heard of DW from this forum in the past but thought it was all German. I'll give it a look. Although not much time before a possible move, I was hoping to get material here where its a little cheaper. Thanks for the advice.
@ Davebee, I'll give it a look. Although if its not a new beginners material I'll probably find a little difficulty. Thanks for the advice.
@ Speakeasy, thanks for the advice. I've ready so many of your posts over the past year. Also, I hope you had all of that material canned instead of typing it all. I've ready so much about material I pretty much know a path to follow. I didn't inquire about FSI/DLI as I read in the forum about the spelling change that occurred some time in the past. I gave PN Spanish a listen long ago and was way past it, but for a brand new language it was a thought. For MT, I have used it in the past and couldn't get past the students mistakes and his lisp/mouth-smacking sound. I shall pass on MT. I have assimil Spanish and liked it for the most part. Then again, I wasn't a noob when I started using it. Thanks for the advice.
@ Cavesa, a Spanish learner I think. I'm surprised about LL but I've read some reviews about the newer stuff not as good as older. I think James29 wrote about it somewhere. I'll look into this Themen Aktuell. I'm not looking to go crazy right away. I have to accept the job first. But I like the idea of not worrying about it or burning out from 3 hrs a day studying. No more than an hour is the plan. I've been around the forum long enough to know what most people think is good or not. I just haven't done much research on the new HTLAL about German. Thanks for the advice.
@ gsbod, I'll give them a look. I've heard of DW from this forum in the past but thought it was all German. I'll give it a look. Although not much time before a possible move, I was hoping to get material here where its a little cheaper. Thanks for the advice.
@ Davebee, I'll give it a look. Although if its not a new beginners material I'll probably find a little difficulty. Thanks for the advice.
@ Speakeasy, thanks for the advice. I've ready so many of your posts over the past year. Also, I hope you had all of that material canned instead of typing it all. I've ready so much about material I pretty much know a path to follow. I didn't inquire about FSI/DLI as I read in the forum about the spelling change that occurred some time in the past. I gave PN Spanish a listen long ago and was way past it, but for a brand new language it was a thought. For MT, I have used it in the past and couldn't get past the students mistakes and his lisp/mouth-smacking sound. I shall pass on MT. I have assimil Spanish and liked it for the most part. Then again, I wasn't a noob when I started using it. Thanks for the advice.
@ Cavesa, a Spanish learner I think. I'm surprised about LL but I've read some reviews about the newer stuff not as good as older. I think James29 wrote about it somewhere. I'll look into this Themen Aktuell. I'm not looking to go crazy right away. I have to accept the job first. But I like the idea of not worrying about it or burning out from 3 hrs a day studying. No more than an hour is the plan. I've been around the forum long enough to know what most people think is good or not. I just haven't done much research on the new HTLAL about German. Thanks for the advice.
3 x
German Goals starting 8 April 2024
: 500 Hours in German (Audio, Video, Books)
: 500 Hours in German (Audio, Video, Books)
-
Speakeasy
- x 7660
Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
With respect to the FSI Basic German course, which I agree is becoming increasingly "long in the tooth", I neglected to remark that an updated version is presently in development. Although only the first five modules of the course have been deployed to date, as far as I understand, the creator of the new version has plans for a 20-module course. Be advised that, while the creator refers to the method as "guided imitation", the updated version relies heavily on the intensive practice of sentence-pattern exercises. Here is the link to the discussion thread:
FSI Basic Courses "Updated": Dr. Brians Languages
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6400
PS: No, not canned. When I was in High School in the 1960's, I opted for Touch Typing over Latin. While the former served me very well (despite the typographical errors that continue to plague me), I now regret not having taken the latter.
FSI Basic Courses "Updated": Dr. Brians Languages
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6400
PS: No, not canned. When I was in High School in the 1960's, I opted for Touch Typing over Latin. While the former served me very well (despite the typographical errors that continue to plague me), I now regret not having taken the latter.
2 x
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reineke
- Black Belt - 3rd Dan
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- x 6554
Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
You'll need an audio course. FSI is free.
German resources
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =19&t=2910
Rosenberg's German: How to Speak and Write It (Dover) is decent. $8 new
Hammer's German Grammar and Usage is $3 used.
You can get everything else in Germany. Preferably in German.
German resources
https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =19&t=2910
Rosenberg's German: How to Speak and Write It (Dover) is decent. $8 new
Hammer's German Grammar and Usage is $3 used.
You can get everything else in Germany. Preferably in German.
1 x
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ShawnP
- Orange Belt
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:08 pm
- Location: Germany
- Languages: English (N), German (Learning)
- Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3123
- x 571
Re: Possible Move to Germany in 2-3 weeks
Thanks for the info Reineke. It looks like all will be a go. I'm just waiting on the offer letter/contract to make sure I'm not getting duped in some way. 2-3 weeks was what I was told but now the lady said as soon as they get back signed documents from the German govt. So, its all a waiting game now.
1 x
German Goals starting 8 April 2024
: 500 Hours in German (Audio, Video, Books)
: 500 Hours in German (Audio, Video, Books)
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