Why is the genitive case used in this Russian sentence

[Dylan95]

"Нет женщин, которые не любят цветов"

"Я не люблю цветы"


Both of these sentences are correct in Russian. What I do not understand is why in the first example, "flowers" takes on the genitive case. Does anyone have information on what grammatical rule explains this?

[neofight78]

I hesitate to answer as a non-native, but my understanding is as follows:

• When using negated verbs both accusative and genitive can be used. Neither is incorrect, however there are subtleties.
• Accusative is preferred when the noun is concrete, genitive is preferred when the noun is abstract.
• When talking about a specific object accusative is preferred (e.g. the pencil), when it's not a specific object genitive is preferred (e.g. a pencil).

There are a couple more subtleties, but that covers most of it.

So taking your two examples:

"Нет женщин, которые не любят цветов"

Here we are talking about flowers in general, rather than a specific bunch or a flowerbed. Hence genitive is preferred.

"Я не люблю цветы"

Without context it's hard to say, but here it is possible that we are talking about some specific flowers, e.g. some flowers in a vase. In which case accusative would be preferred.

"A Living Russian Grammar Intermediate II" has a good chapter on this. Terence Wade's reference also has a section on this "The genitive and accusative after negated verbs."

[Arnaud]

So taking your two examples:

"Нет женщин, которые не любят цветов"

Here we are talking about flowers in general, rather than a specific bunch or a flowerbed. Hence genitive is preferred.

"Я не люблю цветы"

Without context it's hard to say, but here it is possible that we are talking about some specific flowers, e.g. some flowers in a vase. In which case accusative would be preferred.

Honestly, I don't see many differences between the two sentences: for me it's "flowers in general" and the author of the first sentence uses his poetic license. https://www.italki.com/question/178058
Let's wait the answer of a native speaker...

Edit: I'm heavily influenced by french, where we use massively the partitive (rendered by a genitive in russian). For me, the first sentence is not "natural" because there is no partitive in french after the verb "to like/to love", so I always forget to use it and the second sentence seems perfectly natural to me...It's horrible how your mother tongue can influence your perception of things

[neofight78]

Having consulted with Russians here, both accusative and genitive are possible in both cases. However, accusative is more informal and modern whilst genitive sounds more old fashioned and literary.

Arnaud is right, both sentences are abstract. If the second sentence was a concrete case it would be "эти цветы".

I guess the lesson is beware of textbooks because a lot of what they say is either only half true or applies only some of the time ggrr...

Let's not mention verbal aspect....

[tarvos]

Sometimes genitive can also be used to indicate part of a whole, as in "I don't like some of these flowers", "I drunk some water".

[Ketutar]

Funny... being Finnish this makes me think of the Finnish partitive...

[aaleks]

Having consulted with Russians here, both accusative and genitive are possible in both cases. However, accusative is more informal and modern whilst genitive sounds more old fashioned and literary.

I second it. I myself would use "цветы" in both the sentences, to me it sounds more natural.

[Serpent]

Funny... being Finnish this makes me think of the Finnish partitive...

Yes, it's similar!
I personally overuse it iin Russian because of that haha

@tarvos I can't think of a way to use the genitive to say I don't like some of the flowers It does work implicitly, like in the first example (there's no woman that doesn't like at least some flowers).