English articles

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aaleks
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English articles

Postby aaleks » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:47 am

Yesterday I've read a discussion on a Russian forum for English learners about articles (I myself don't post there, only read). Among other things, there has been suggested to fill gaps in this sentence:

This is [?] John. He is [?] engineer. He built [?] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [?] idiot!

I don't agree with some of explanations given there. But grammar is, probably, my weakest point so I can be wrong. I'd like to know a native speakers (or people with high level proficiency in the language) version of the sentence. I mean what articles would you use?
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Re: English articles

Postby DaveBee » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:59 am

aaleks wrote:Yesterday I've read a discussion on a Russian forum for English learners about articles (I myself don't post there, only read). Among other things, there has been suggested to fill gaps in this sentence:

This is [?] John. He is [?] engineer. He built [?] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [?] idiot!

I'd like to know a native speakers (or people with high level proficiency in the language) version of the sentence. I mean what articles would you use?
This is [my/our/the/that] John. He is [an/the/that/our/my] engineer. He built [a/the/that] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [The] idiot!

EDIT
Error! Mistakes! Shame! As pointed out by other posters, the only options are: a/an/the.
Last edited by DaveBee on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English articles

Postby rdearman » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:03 am

DaveBee wrote:
aaleks wrote:Yesterday I've read a discussion on a Russian forum for English learners about articles (I myself don't post there, only read). Among other things, there has been suggested to fill gaps in this sentence:

This is [?] John. He is [?] engineer. He built [?] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [?] idiot!

I'd like to know a native speakers (or people with high level proficiency in the language) version of the sentence. I mean what articles would you use?
This is [my/our/the/that] John. He is [an/the/that/our/my] engineer. He built [a/the/that] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [The] idiot!

Errr... are we saying that John is a client of a prostutute? I can't think of any other reason to say " [my/our/the/that] John".
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Re: English articles

Postby DaveBee » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:08 am

rdearman wrote:
DaveBee wrote:
aaleks wrote:Yesterday I've read a discussion on a Russian forum for English learners about articles (I myself don't post there, only read). Among other things, there has been suggested to fill gaps in this sentence:

This is [?] John. He is [?] engineer. He built [?] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [?] idiot!

I'd like to know a native speakers (or people with high level proficiency in the language) version of the sentence. I mean what articles would you use?
This is [my/our/the/that] John. He is [an/the/that/our/my] engineer. He built [a/the/that] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [The] idiot!

Errr... are we saying that John is a client of a prostutute? I can't think of any other reason to say " [my/our/the/that] John".
My John (husband, son, brother etc). Our John (family member, group member). The/that John (subject of previous remarks, the John that was mentioned).
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Re: English articles

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:12 am

LesRonces wrote:What did they put for the [?] before 'John' ?


Probably because some learners (Russians?) are said to have difficulties with articles (and some languages really do have articles before first names). I just read the question marks as "insert a, an, the or nothing".
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Re: English articles

Postby Whodathunkitz » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:15 am

aaleks wrote:Yesterday I've read a discussion on a Russian forum for English learners about articles (I myself don't post there, only read). Among other things, there has been suggested to fill gaps in this sentence:

This is [?] John. He is [?] engineer. He built [?] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [?] idiot!

I don't agree with some of explanations given there. But grammar is, probably, my weakest point so I can be wrong. I'd like to know a native speakers (or people with high level proficiency in the language) version of the sentence. I mean what articles would you use?


This is [1] John. He is [2] engineer. He built [3] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [4] idiot!

If I understand correctly, only articles are "a/an" and "the" - other words could be added (that)

Therefore:-

This is [1-none*] John. He is [2-an/the] engineer. He built [3-a/the] bridge that fell down after two weeks. [4-The/An] idiot!

1-none* - possibly "the" if an answer is required and an imagined earlier question was asked.

Q) "Which John was it? This one or that one"
A) "This is the John"

2-An - He is an engineer, statement of fact, one of many engineers in the world.

2-The - HE is THE engineer! (note emphasis and [my preference] an exclamation mark !) - I blame him (accusing, pointing him out).

3- A - less likely as how many bridges fall down quickly. But it could be used.

3- The - more noteworthy - more likely use.

4- An - An idiot (there are very many...statement of a sad fact)

4 - The - The idiot! (I would expect an exclamation mark in written form, in speech it could be an outburst or resigned - with a sigh).

A/An - depends if next world starts with a vowel or a vowel sound (real world, a/an [h]otel?? Some oddities in speech.)

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage ... oric-event

An honour / an hour / a hotel - if the speaker uses h - but many in Uk (London) drop the H - so all might be AN... except that they know how it's spelt and so go back to saying "a 'onour"

Keeping to whether it's THE or not, the question needs context, an explanation or just lots of discussion (original forum!). Punctuation would help.
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Re: English articles

Postby aaleks » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:28 am

jeff_lindqvist wrote:Probably because some learners (Russians?) are said to have difficulties with articles (and some languages really do have articles before first names). I just read the question marks as "insert a, an, the or nothing".

Yes, we have :) I remember that when I was learning German in school, and the language has articles as well :D , all those articles looked like some meaningless accessory to me.

LesRonces wrote:What did they put for the [?] before 'John' ?

Whodathunkitz wrote:1-none* - possibly "the" if an answer is required and an imagined earlier question was asked.

"None" is allowed too.
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Re: English articles

Postby aaleks » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:46 am

Whodathunkitz wrote:Keeping to whether it's THE or not, the question needs context, an explanation or just lots of discussion (original forum!). Punctuation would help.

Unfortunatly, there have been only these three sentences. No context. Maybe it was taken from a textbook.

LesRonces, DaveBee, Whodathunkitz
Thank you! :)
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Re: English articles

Postby smallwhite » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:58 am

aaleks wrote:I mean what articles would you use?

What articles did you use and why?
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Re: English articles

Postby aaleks » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:36 pm

smallwhite wrote:
aaleks wrote:I mean what articles would you use?

What articles did you use and why?


My version would've been:

This is John. Without an article because I'm just not used to see "my", "our" etc. as articles, and also because I see this text as a textbook text.
He is an engineer. "An" - because this sounds like a statement of fact to me.
He built the bridge that fell down after two weeks. "The" - because of the second part of the sentence "…that fell down…"
An idiot! I can't explain. I wasn't sure what to choose. And I already know that it's wrong (and I think/hope I've understood why it's wrong).

The whole text:
This is John. He is an engineer. He built the bridge that fell down after two weeks. An idiot!
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