Grammar while speaking

[aokoye]

The title more or less says it all. How do people work on making sure their grammar is correct (or as close as correct as possible) when they're speaking?
Just to nip what may very well come up in the bud, I personally don't care a whole lot about how L2 speakers speak English, however I know that not everyone is like me in terms of their views on grammar usage among L2 speakers who are speaking the other person's L1. More importantly (for me), test adjudicators are really going to care and I have at least one German test to pass in September at the C1 level.

At the moment my conditions are nearly ideal. I know what bits of grammar I need to work on, I know what parts of the speaking section of at least one of the tests I need to work on, I have a tutor who is not shy about correcting me, and I see said tutor once a week in person for a few hours and we speak on the phone once a week for a few hours.

How would people suggest I tackle this. Is it just a matter of doing a ton of grammar exercises until I can do them without thinking? Is it creating sentences that target the grammar I need to work on? All of the above? Something different?

[galaxyrocker]

I think it's a matter of practice. Practice outside conversation definitely helps, but, if you can, working with a tutor and having them correct you grammar could certainly help. Something I've found helpful was to be corrected after I said something wrong (especially if it was an egregious error) and then repeating it the correct way. It could also be useful to have a full conversation/deliver a mini-speech and then repeat it afterwards with the tutor/by yourself correctly. But, I think it's better to do it during conversation. Another way, if you don't want to be corrected and interrupted, would be to have the tutor/conversation partner correct you the next sentence and then move on. That way you hear it.

But, really, it comes down to needing the practice during conversation, in my opinion. Grammar study outside conversation, as much as I enjoy it, can only take you so far.

[aokoye]

But, really, it comes down to needing the practice during conversation, in my opinion. Grammar study outside conversation, as much as I enjoy it, can only take you so far.

So it sounds like I should basically keep doing what I'm doing now. What tends to happen in terms of corrections is a mix of what you suggested. She'll either stop me after I've finished a sentence (if it's especially egregious), tell me the corrections after I finish talking, of summarize what I've done wrong.

[zenmonkey]

I'd guess it is :
drills
doing sentences / chunks
massive input to develop your ear for correct output
output output output

[blaurebell]

My method is massive input until I hear that I make mistakes. Then I follow up with heavy grammar drilling, progressive grammar books, FSI, to know how to say it correctly. I find that written drills are only of limited use for spoken language though. They can make you aware of the rules, but then it needs oral drilling to really make it automatic. FSI seems to make the biggest difference for me right now and more than one pass seems to be necessary. With English I found tons of writing with self-corrections helpful too.

[aokoye]

Thanks everyone for your responses! So far to summarize it looks like the main ideas in no perticular order are:

• Massive amounts of input
• Massive amounts of output
• Sentences/chunks
• Oral drilling (al la FSI)
• Shadowing
• Reading out loud
• Drills

The I get quite a lot of input but I could always use more. Output has been ramping up as of late and will really ramp up when I'm in Germany and Austria. I need to look up the chunking thing (I know there are threads about it here and presumably on the old site). Drilling - I'll download FSI after I type this. Are there other resources that are good for drilling or is it really just FSI (and presumably DLI)? I'm sure this is another thing I can do a search for.

[Cavesa]

Number one for me were the tv series. Those really automatized everything.
Grammar exercises (if you put them under the drills) are another very useful element, to get rid of recurring mistakes.

[Cainntear]

My best technique was always to focus on eliminating one or two errors at a time. You don't have time to think about everything, and if you try, you'll either end up spotting your errors too late to do anything about them or worse, thinking so much that you jam up and only manage Tarzan speak.

If, on the other hand, you identify one of your most common and fundamental mistakes, then you're only listening for one thing.

The pattern for me with Spanish was that once I'd identified an important mistake to work on, I'd initially always spot it too late to stop myself saying it, but I corrected myself and said it right (native speakers would tell me it wasn't important, but the main thing is there has to be consequences to a mistake, so that you learn to avoid it in future).

After a small number of times of this happening, I'd find that I'd be anticipating the mistake, and noticing earlier and earlier.

Very soon I started catching myself mid-error and correcting on-the-fly.

Then I'd get to the point where I'd spot that I was about to make the error and would mentally self-correct before saying it.

At this point I'd probably let myself start working on a new error, as the old error was getting easier to correct.

I was really pleased at how quickly all my mistakes disappeared, but I was spending a lot of my spare time with Spanish speakers in those days.

[neofight78]

Is it creating sentences that target the grammar I need to work on?

Yes, memorise sentences that illustrate the grammar points you want to perfect. Get used to repeating them out loud. Apply the same process to all your corrections.

[Cainntear]

Is it creating sentences that target the grammar I need to work on?

Yes, memorise sentences that illustrate the grammar points you want to perfect. Get used to repeating them out loud. Apply the same process to all your corrections.

I don't think that's what he was asking.

I think aokoye's talking about practicing making up different sentences, to practice the rule in different contexts, which I believe is pretty important. Repeating the same example sentence over and over again risks learning the sentence as a fixed phrase rather than learning the underlying grammar.