getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

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getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby guiguixx1 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:42 am

Hi guys!

I'm normally going to Valencia (Spain) to work as a French teacher in a language school next year. I would take this opportunity to bring my Spanish to C1 if possible. The school uses Catalan as their main language and I have 4 hours of class per week for this language for the entire stay (mid-september until end june). I would like to get catalan to a decent level as well thus (though I guess B1 would be enough). With my language background, is there a particular learning plan, method, or learning material that you would advise me? I already plan on learning the basics (using Duolingo) until I arrive there, but since I've heard that Catalan was midway between French and Spanish, I guess it should be quick to learn. Any recommendation as to how to make the most of this stay and improve my language knowledge as well as possible?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby Iversen » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:52 am

I visited Valencia a few years ago, and in the town itself I heard very little Valencià - except in the most touristy areas (like around the cathedral or the aquarium), where the speakers may have been foreign visitors. Outside Valencia (and away from the coast) it was more common - especially towards the North, i.e. in the direction of Catalunya, but I also heard a few phrases while walking around in Xativa, which is a smaller inland town South-West from Valencia (city). In the Southern coastal town Alacant (Alicante) I didn't catch a single word in Valencià in spite of the fact that there were bilingual official signs everywhere.

Catalan/Valencian has not much in common with French these days - it was a relative of Occitan, but the Northern French have done a fairly proper work of killing both Occitan and Catalan in all public spaces in France. The big problem now is the Castillian influence on Catalan/Valencian - or in other words: interference. When I first learnt Catalan in the 70s I bought a nifty little book by C.A.Jordana: "El Català i el Castillà comparats". It is almost certainly out of print today, but maybe you can find something similar when you are in that part of the world.

As for the differences between Catalan and Valencian: no problem. Valencian sounds a little bit 'softer' (and they write u instead of v between vowels, like "seua"/"seva"). I actually found Balearic Catalan harder to understand than Valencian. If you learn Valencian in the school you mentioned you will have no problems speaking it in Barcelona. Catalan and Valencian are definitely two variants of the same language, and the only problem is what name you should use for that language. The 'Valencian language' might have fared better in Valencia if the local media and politicians had been less intent on drawing a line between themselves and the Catalans and instead exploited the resources which are produced in Catalunya. I had even problems buying Catalan newspapers in Valencia.
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby Ogrim » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:48 pm

Everything Iversen says is true, but as my wife is from Valencia and I have lived in the city and spend lots of time there every year I would like to add a few thoughts.

If your Spanish is at a decent level, you will certainly be able to understand written and spoken Catalan/Valencian quickly, but it will take more of an effort to learn to speak it well. I'd say don't spend too much time on course material, it is better to dip into native material quickly, for example Wikipedia articles, like this one about the city of Valencia.

It is true that most people in Valencia city speak Spanish, but amongst those who speak Catalan/Valencian I've met two types of people: Valencianistas and Catalanistas. The former insists on Valencian being different from Catalan and will stress the differences, whilst the latter think Valencian should recognise its close relation (linguistically speaking) to its neighbour in the north and aim at staying close to Catalan standard. I won't go into the politics behind all this, but you should be aware of this possible tension when speaking to people and the fact that a lot of Valencians are no friends of the Catalans, especially in the current situation (I am thinking about the independence debate). As Iversen says, it is hard to find Catalan newspapers there, and for many years the local government in Valencia blocked the access to Catalan TV stations. You will also find that there are course boooks, grammars and dictionaries for Valencian in the local book shops, but not that easy to find the same material for Catalan. In the end it does not matter much, as the differences between the two are minor. In addition to Iversen's observations I can add that there are some differences in the conjugation of certain verbs and also the use of prepositions may differ in certain constructions. That however is not something you need to worry about, it would only matter if you were planning to take an official exam in Valencian. In any case Catalans and Valencians understand each other without any problem.

If you go to work in a state school, I would expect them to define the main language as Valencian rather than Catalan so I'd be interested to hear if it really is the case that they talk about Catalan.

I know a few villages not far from Valencia city where most people speak Valencian on a daily basis, e.g. Silla, Sueca or L'Alcudia. These are small villages off the coast and therefore less touristy than places like Denia, Javea or Cullera where Spanish dominates. Of course every one there speaks Spanish as well, so if a non-local or a foreigner enters a bar in these places you're most likely to be addressed in Spanish.

Good luck in Valencia, I may be biased but I really think it is a great city with a lot to offer, and not only sun, sea and paella ;) , there is a lot of culture to enjoy as well.
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby DangerDave2010 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:28 pm

From my knowledge of Spanish French and Italian, I find that news in Catalan to be nearly 100% transparent, with zero previous study of Catalan, so news is probably a good genre to get your reading started. I have tried reading novels, but they were to difficult.
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby guiguixx1 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:15 am

Thank you all for your replies! I'll try to work with some reading then. I therefore guess that using Duolingo would be a total waste of time?
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby guiguixx1 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:45 am

Are there also listening resources? I'd like to already get some listening input before the trip. Does any know any Youtube channel or any website?
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby Ogrim » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:11 pm

guiguixx1 wrote:Are there also listening resources? I'd like to already get some listening input before the trip. Does any know any Youtube channel or any website?


Check out the website of TV3.cat, in particular the section a la carta. Most programmes have no geo-restriction, and what is even better is that most of them have subtitles in Catalan. You just need to click on the symbol which is like a small rectangle next to the line which indicates the duration of the programme.

What you hear on TV3.cat is Catalan. If you want to listen to how Valencian is spoken, there is a Youtube channel called Ficció en Valencià, here you can find a lot of episodes of a Valencian telenovela called "L'alqueria blanca" which was quite popular at the time it was on air.
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby stelingo » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:13 pm

RTVE has a daily news programme, although it seems to be in a mixture of Valencian and Spanish.
http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/linformatiu-comunitat-valenciana/

An interesting video, if your Catalan/Valencian is up to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-8jwR9Cj68

It's about a German who speaks excellent Catalan. She travels around Catalonia, Andorra and Perpignan examining the present situation of Catalan, and seeing how successful she is using only Catalan. She doesn't speak much Castillian. I can't remember if she visits the Valencian speaking areas, but I'm sure you would find it interesting, anyway.

A popular Catalan soap: El Cor de la Ciutat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0IVMEctFsk
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby guiguixx1 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:47 pm

I got some links for Catalan from the language school where I will be teaching, so I should have enough material, and I plan on working with native materials, as you advised.

Now I'm wondering about Spanish: I don't really know which learning habit I should follow in order to try and reach C1. I'm currently between B1 and B2, probably closer to B2. I thought about reading 1 hour a day in Spanish (along with vocab study. I would practice speaking and listening in my everyday life). With my language background, is it a good strategy?

I only did an immersion once, for Dutch, for 5 months when I already had B2+ but I couldn't make the most of it because of my studies. This time, I'm not studying and should therefore have more time for language learning.

Any tips?
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Re: getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

Postby nooj » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:31 am

One very important thing to note is that with French and Spanish, Catalan becomes after a while very easy to comprehend. However, comprehension DOES NOT translate to speaking ability. If you want to speak Valencian-Catalan as opposed to merely understanding it, you will have to put a lot of effort into specifically speaking it. This seems to be a common trap Romance speakers fall into when they come to Catalunya or Valencia.
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