getting ready to a stay in Valencia (Catalan)

[Saim]

I visited Valencia a few years ago, and in the town itself I heard very little Valencià - except in the most touristy areas (like around the cathedral or the aquarium), where the speakers may have been foreign visitors.

IIRC in the central neighbourhoods of Valencia you'll hear more Valencian than in the outer suburbs. This happens in most of the larger historically Catalan-speaking cities in Spain due to the pattern of settlement of the Spanish-speaking migration in the 60s and 70s.

In the Southern coastal town Alacant (Alicante) I didn't catch a single word in Valencià in spite of the fact that there were bilingual official signs everywhere.

In Alacant language shift started among the upper class even before the Spanish Civil War, and has indeed spread to all levels of society, whereas in most of the rest of the language domain (well, the parts under Spanish administration) the use of Spanish increased primarily due to immigration and the locals and their descendants mostly kept speaking Catalan.

If you go to work in a state school, I would expect them to define the main language as Valencian rather than Catalan so I'd be interested to hear if it really is the case that they talk about Catalan.

As far as I know in the education system they call it Valencian (as does pretty much everyone in the Valencian Country outside of academic contexts), but they also accept it's the same language as Catalan.

The former insists on Valencian being different from Catalan and will stress the differences, whilst the latter think Valencian should recognise its close relation (linguistically speaking) to its neighbour in the north and aim at staying close to Catalan standard.

What I've heard from Valencians is that this conflict was big during the transition to democracy but it's kind of become less and less important over the years, especially now that Compromís is in the government despite being accused to be "Catalanist" by right-wing press.

Also, people who accept Valencian and Catalan are the same language will often call themselves valencianistes (even the small minority that wants to create a federation of independent republics with Catalonia and the Balearics uses that term), and call the ones who don't blavers (because of the blue stripe that differentiates the flag of the Valencian Autonomous Community from the senyera nua or quatribarrada shared with Catalonia, Aragon and the Balearics) or secessionistes (lingüístics)

[Kubelek]

My resources are a bit dated, I haven't been wanderlusting in the Web 2.0/app days.
Assimil Catalan sin esfuerzo is supposed to be one of the top assimil programs out there.
There's a video course floating around on the web similar to French in Action for Catalan called Digui Digui.
There are some cartoons dubbed into Valencian proper, they try to get kids early before they can enjoy things in Castellano I recall seeing Bola del drac (Dragon Ball)

Ultimately I was sent to Spain-Spain and never got around to finishing them, but at the time of my research those seemed to be decent options to start with.

[Gomorrita]

I'm from Valencia yet I don't have much to add, people are quite well informed around here.

There used to be a regional TV channel (Canal Nou) where all content was dubbed in Valencian variety, but unfortunately it closed 4 years ago. Also unfortunately a few years before that, Catalan channel TV3, which I believe was of higher quality than Canal Nou, got blocked in the region. I don't live in Valencia anymore, so I don't know if it remains blocked, but of course you can access most of TV3's content online anyway.

If you want to get by speaking in Valencian as soon as possible, I do believe you should prioritize listening to Valencian varieties simply because pronunciation can be quite different. Just to get an idea, I think Valencian and Catalan differ in a similar way British and American English do (not completely sure about this statement )

[Saim]

I don't live in Valencia anymore, so I don't know if it remains blocked, but of course you can access most of TV3's content online anyway.

Last I heard the current government is planning to reintroduce TV3, but only once they rebuild Canal 9 so that it's a case of media reciprocity rather than just having TV3 for its own sake.

[nooj]

Update.

Canal Nou is gone (shut by the previous right wing PP government), but after nearly five years of no public service channel for the autonomous community of the Comunitat Valenciana, there is now À Punt, and it's great.

I especially recommend Trau la llengua, a series that was on the old Canal Nou but has been revived for À Punt. It is like the Caçador de paraules series that used to be shown on TV3 in Catalunya, orientated around the language.

There is so much variety and richness in the Catalan that is spoken in Valencia, it's very beautiful. It's true that only 30% of the population speaks Valencian, but hopefully more and more people will learn it, and more and more people will decide to transmit it to their children. There was a brutal decline starting from the 50s onwards as many people transitioned to Spanish monolingualism.

Someone mentioned the documentary series, Són bojos els catalans?. Well there was a follow up to that, Què ens passa, valencians? which focuses specifically on Valencia. Must watch television!



There's a YT channel that goes up and asks Valencians what they think about various topics, in Valencian. The name of the channel is No hi havia a Valencia, which comes from a poem, Els amants, by probably the greatest Valencian poet of modernity (let's not talk about Ausiàs March!), Vicent Andrés Estellés.

Here is one they did about the Països Catalans:



As Saim said (btw, in Balearic Catalan, saim means fat or lard hence the name of the classic Mallorcan dish ensaimada), the height of the conflict was in the 90s, but that does not mean that has not left a deep impact on the Valencian psyche with respect to their language and identity...it's quite sad, I think.

I also very much like this channel, quite new, which focuses on interviews with important Valencian cultural figures. This one is with the frontwoman of the band El Diluvi:

[Random Review]

Everything Iversen says is true, but as my wife is from Valencia and I have lived in the city and spend lots of time there every year I would like to add a few thoughts.

If your Spanish is at a decent level, you will certainly be able to understand written and spoken Catalan/Valencian quickly, but it will take more of an effort to learn to speak it well. I'd say don't spend too much time on course material, it is better to dip into native material quickly, for example Wikipedia articles, like this one about the city of Valencia.

It is true that most people in Valencia city speak Spanish, but amongst those who speak Catalan/Valencian I've met two types of people: Valencianistas and Catalanistas. The former insists on Valencian being different from Catalan and will stress the differences, whilst the latter think Valencian should recognise its close relation (linguistically speaking) to its neighbour in the north and aim at staying close to Catalan standard. I won't go into the politics behind all this, but you should be aware of this possible tension when speaking to people and the fact that a lot of Valencians are no friends of the Catalans, especially in the current situation (I am thinking about the independence debate). As Iversen says, it is hard to find Catalan newspapers there, and for many years the local government in Valencia blocked the access to Catalan TV stations. You will also find that there are course boooks, grammars and dictionaries for Valencian in the local book shops, but not that easy to find the same material for Catalan. In the end it does not matter much, as the differences between the two are minor. In addition to Iversen's observations I can add that there are some differences in the conjugation of certain verbs and also the use of prepositions may differ in certain constructions. That however is not something you need to worry about, it would only matter if you were planning to take an official exam in Valencian. In any case Catalans and Valencians understand each other without any problem.

If you go to work in a state school, I would expect them to define the main language as Valencian rather than Catalan so I'd be interested to hear if it really is the case that they talk about Catalan.

I know a few villages not far from Valencia city where most people speak Valencian on a daily basis, e.g. Silla, Sueca or L'Alcudia. These are small villages off the coast and therefore less touristy than places like Denia, Javea or Cullera where Spanish dominates. Of course every one there speaks Spanish as well, so if a non-local or a foreigner enters a bar in these places you're most likely to be addressed in Spanish.

Good luck in Valencia, I may be biased but I really think it is a great city with a lot to offer, and not only sun, sea and paella , there is a lot of culture to enjoy as well.

Interesting post. I once claimed in Madrid that Valencian was a dialect of Catalan (IIRC I think the discussion was about there being several languages in Spain and they had listed Valencian as an example, hence my response) and was advised with a fair bit of laughter that it was but that I shouldn't ever say that to someone from Valencia or there might be trouble. I always wondered why and your post clears that up a bit.

[Saim]

(btw, in Balearic Catalan, saim means fat or lard hence the name of the classic Mallorcan dish ensaimada)

That word is saïm [sə.'im] and I'm ['sajm]~['saɪm]~['sa.ɪm], although I don't mind it if people call me [sə.'im] or [saɪ.'i:m] or whatever (as long as it's not Sam or Simon ).

Interesting post. I once claimed in Madrid that Valencian was a dialect of Catalan (IIRC I think the discussion was about there being several languages in Spain and they had listed Valencian as an example, hence my response) and was advised with a fair bit of laughter that it was but that I shouldn't ever say that to someone from Valencia or there might be trouble. I always wondered why and your post clears that up a bit.

It's not so much that Valencian is a dialect of Catalan, but that Catalan and Valencian are two names for the same language.

According to the normative Valencian dictionary of the Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua:

valencià -ana
2. m. LING. Llengua romànica parlada a la Comunitat Valenciana, així com a Catalunya, les Illes Balears, el departament francés dels Pirineus Orientals, el Principat d'Andorra, la franja oriental d'Aragó i la ciutat sarda de l'Alguer, llocs on rep el nom de català. [A Romance language spoken in the Valencian Community, as well as in Catalonia, the Balearic Islands, the French department of the Eastern Pyrenees, the Principality of Andorra, the eastern strip of Aragon and the Sardinian city of Alguer, where it is known as Catalan.]
3. m. LING. Varietat d'esta llengua parlada a la Comunitat Valenciana. Valencià septentrional, valencià central, valencià meridional. [A variety of this language spoken in the Valencian Community. Northern Valencian, Central Valencian, Southern Valencian].

The dictionary of the Institut d'Estudis Catalans gives the same definitions but reverses their order:

valencià -ana
2 1 m. [LC] [FL] Dialecte occidental del català parlat al País Valencià. [Western dialect of Catalan spoken in the Valencian Country]
2 6 m. [FL] Al País Valencià, llengua catalana. [in the Valencian Country, the Catalan language]

So according to both normative dictionaries (that of the Catalan-Balearic IEC and the Valencian AVL), valencià can refer to either the entire Catalanovalencian language system or specifically to the Valencian dialect bloc which includes the Northern, Central and Southern Valencian dialects.

This may seem like a pedantic point to make, but I think given the whole identity conflict it's important to emphasise the fact that Catalan and Valencian being the same language doesn't necessarily mean subordinating Valencians' linguistic and cultural identity to Catalonia. The word valencià is a perfectly legitimate way to refer to the Catalan language and has been in use for many hundreds of years.

[nooj]

Honestly a lot of the friction would disappear overnight if we renamed Catalunya 'Far north Valencia' and the other Catalan dialects they speak there 'North Valencian'.

It annoys me that dialect means something different in linguistics and in normal life. If dialect to you and people around you means something derived from another language, often with undertones of inferiority, of course you don't want people calling your language a dialect. But that's not what linguists mean when they say Catalan (from Catalunya) and Valencian are dialects of a Catalan language.

[zenmonkey]

My resources are a bit dated, I haven't been wanderlusting in the Web 2.0/app days.
Assimil Catalan sin esfuerzo is supposed to be one of the top assimil programs out there.
There's a video course floating around on the web similar to French in Action for Catalan called Digui Digui.
There are some cartoons dubbed into Valencian proper, they try to get kids early before they can enjoy things in Castellano I recall seeing Bola del drac (Dragon Ball)

Ultimately I was sent to Spain-Spain and never got around to finishing them, but at the time of my research those seemed to be decent options to start with.

Another vote for Assimil Catalan. It is pretty good.

[Random Review]

This may seem like a pedantic point to make, but I think given the whole identity conflict it's important to emphasise the fact that Catalan and Valencian being the same language doesn't necessarily mean subordinating Valencians' linguistic and cultural identity to Catalonia. The word valencià is a perfectly legitimate way to refer to the Catalan language and has been in use for many hundreds of years.

It's not pedantic at all. Genuinely thank you for correcting my ignorant assumption and saving me embarrassment further down the line.