Earlier today, I fell asleep listening to France Culture. The guests were talking about how sports from the Middle East don't get enough attention worldwide. I was following the conversation about 70%. However, somewhere along, I fell asleep (I was super tired today.) When I woke up an hour later, something strange happened. It was magic!
I could CLEARLY understand what was being said!!!!
I was so stunned that I didn’t move. I figured maybe I was understanding so much because I was lying in bed, because I was so relaxed, and that’s why the information was effortlessly registering in my brain. After about 20 minutes, I had to get up and see what I was listening to.
I looked at the bottom of my computer screen, and there is was! In an instant, my elation vanished. That bubble of joy that I seemed to be floating in had burst. I was back in the real world.
So, what was I listening to? Who cares! It was a TRANSLATION.
Okay, I'll be nice! It turns out I was listening to an Edgar Allen Poe Story called The Facts in the Case of Mr. Valdemar.
I suppose I could have done worse. It was translated into French by Baudelaire. (On Saturday nights France Culture has a show called "Fictions" where professionals read stories. It's basically audio books on the radio.
I wonder if a native French speaker would have noticed it was a translation? The grammar of the sentences was so perfect that I could pick out the subject, verb, etc., of all the sentences. They were ideal sentences. Therein lies part of the problem. And, yes, translation is slightly guilty of this. In real life, great literature, written in its original form, isn’t always so picture perfect. Yet these translators (probably fearing people might think they are incompetent) produce a final product that while "safe" and "correct," loses a bit of the uncontrolled nature of the original. To a certain extent this may also hurt the budding language learners because they are getting a muted picture of authentic language.
So, my question is, if I’m trying to improve my listening comprehension of NATIVE FRENCH, am I wasting my time listening to audio books that have been translated into French from English. There are no shortage of Steven King books translated into French for some reason. Yet, the young 25-year-old Parian boy writing pages of Pulitzer-prize worthy work can't get an appointment with Gallimard or Simons & Schuster. (I hate capitalism – I digress).
For whatever reason, reading or listening to something originally written or spoken in French is hard for me. The sentence structure is a challenge. I would like to think that starting with translations might help me bridge the gap, they could be my literary training wheels. But, then there is the school of thought that says the only way you’re going to learn how to swim is to be dumped in the middle of the Atlantic. I feel one way babies you and the other is just pure torture.
So, what do you think? Translation or no translation?
Listen to books in translation or NOT?
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
As long as it's a good translation I see no issue. You could also look at the number of people who read Harry Potter in an L2 that isn't English and The Little Prince in an L2 that isn't French or watch things like dubs of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
@aokoye - you bring up a good point with Harry Potter and Le Petit Prince.
But those people weren't necessarily trying to learn the language. They were just native speakers, reading something translated into their native tongue.
However, when learning a language, at least for me, I'm looking to learn the most authentic way to say something in the language, not the next best thing.
For example, I get a big high when I hear how French speakers use the word prevoir for example. The first time I heard someone use it to express "expectation" instead of "foresight," it was like a big lightbulb went off in my head. And I said to myself, "Yes, that does make sense." These moments are great in small doses. In floods, however, they can be overwhelming.
But those people weren't necessarily trying to learn the language. They were just native speakers, reading something translated into their native tongue.
However, when learning a language, at least for me, I'm looking to learn the most authentic way to say something in the language, not the next best thing.
For example, I get a big high when I hear how French speakers use the word prevoir for example. The first time I heard someone use it to express "expectation" instead of "foresight," it was like a big lightbulb went off in my head. And I said to myself, "Yes, that does make sense." These moments are great in small doses. In floods, however, they can be overwhelming.
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
issemiyaki wrote:@aokoye - you bring up a good point with Harry Potter and Le Petit Prince.
But those people weren't necessarily trying to learn the language. They were just native speakers, reading something translated into their native tongue.
Actually I was talking specifically about people who are reading a translation that isn't in their L1. Hence "Harry Potter in an L2 that isn't English and The Little Prince in an L2 that isn't French"
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
Yes of course. It is probably a good idea to stick to translations until they are totally unchallenging. Translations' concise, simple and straightforward language is in fact a very nice style for you to emulate.
But be aware that it is not right to presume that translated works are by nature easier than natives'. Native books vary wildly in "difficulty", you are sure to find authors that are a lot easier than the average.
By reading translations you will be missing many idiomatic expressions that are not used, but you can leave them for later, while you build solid foundations
But be aware that it is not right to presume that translated works are by nature easier than natives'. Native books vary wildly in "difficulty", you are sure to find authors that are a lot easier than the average.
By reading translations you will be missing many idiomatic expressions that are not used, but you can leave them for later, while you build solid foundations
Last edited by DangerDave2010 on Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
A good translator translates into the target language idiomatically. Have you ever read anything professionally translated into your native language that was not idiomatic? At most there will be rare awkwardness.
I used to be a snob about not reading/listening to translations, but now my goal is to maximize enjoyment of what I read and hear. I'd fall asleep listening to a discussion of middle-eastern sports too. Additionally, if you are listening to a favorite book in translation or a discussion of a topic about which you are knowledgeable, it's helpful because you can put more effort into understanding the language being already familiar with the story or topic.
I used to be a snob about not reading/listening to translations, but now my goal is to maximize enjoyment of what I read and hear. I'd fall asleep listening to a discussion of middle-eastern sports too. Additionally, if you are listening to a favorite book in translation or a discussion of a topic about which you are knowledgeable, it's helpful because you can put more effort into understanding the language being already familiar with the story or topic.
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
@DangerDave2010 - good point. Thanks.
@Jbean - I'm trying to be a little challenging with myself since I want to be an interpreter with French, so that's why I'm so focused on getting it right.
@Jbean - I'm trying to be a little challenging with myself since I want to be an interpreter with French, so that's why I'm so focused on getting it right.
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
Stephen King books are generally very well translated. I believe at one point he actually worked on choosing translators. Many books translated into French are works of art. Don't hesitate to work with translated books.
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
@zenmonkey - thanks for the feedback.
I know that France has a great reputation for training great interpreters, I didn't know they were also known for their translations.
I must say, even though I was a bit bummed out when I realized I was listening to a translation, I still sounded very good. And it was done by Baudelaire no less.
So thanks for the endorsement for reading French translations.
I know that France has a great reputation for training great interpreters, I didn't know they were also known for their translations.
I must say, even though I was a bit bummed out when I realized I was listening to a translation, I still sounded very good. And it was done by Baudelaire no less.
So thanks for the endorsement for reading French translations.
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Re: Listen to books in translation or NOT?
issemiyaki wrote:@zenmonkey - thanks for the feedback.
I know that France has a great reputation for training great interpreters, I didn't know they were also known for their translations.
I must say, even though I was a bit bummed out when I realized I was listening to a translation, I still sounded very good. And it was done by Baudelaire no less.
So thanks for the endorsement for reading French translations.
It's a very long tradition. Voltaire and Ducis translated Shakespeare. If you read Shakespeare's Hamlet in Spanish you are likely reading a translation of Ducis' translation.
Other Shakespeare translators include Victor Hugo, Dumas.
Boris Vian, Baudelaire, Mallarme, Chateaubriand and many other great writers translated works at some point.
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