Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
User avatar
bpasseri
White Belt
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: United States
Languages: .
Native: English
Advanced: Spanish, French
Intermediate: Italian, Portuguese
Beginner: Mandarin Chinese
Dabbled: Japanese, Greek, German, Esperanto
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7995
x 51

Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby bpasseri » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 pm

Hi everyone!

I studied French for a long time during high school and through the university level, and I would like to keep this as an active language but I don't feel any particular need to improve it at this time and would like to focus on other languages. In your experience, how much time per week do you need to put in to maintain a language at its current level (in this instance, at about a B2)? I would really like to focus on improving my Spanish and Mandarin, but I don't want to neglect French any more than I already have since graduating from college about two years ago.

Thanks for your input!!! :D
2 x
: 1900 / 2500 ES Books
: 390 / 4500 ES Movies

: 480 / 2500 FR Books
: 90 / 4500 FR Movies

: 0 / 2500 IT Books
: 0 / 4500 IT Movies

: 250 / 2500 PT Books
: 360 / 4500 PT Movies

User avatar
TrioLinguist
White Belt
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:45 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada
Languages: English (N), German (C1), French (B1)
x 19

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby TrioLinguist » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:59 pm

How much time per week do you need to put in to maintain a language at its current level?


A language rusts if you don't use it for a period of time, so I think the key is a little bit every day. I don't think it's necessary to study per se, but instead just keep yourself exposed to the language on a daily basis, even if that just means spending 15 minutes every morning reading French-language news, or whatever else you may like to do.
2 x
Read 1,000,000 words out of German fiction novels : 1000000 / 1000000

User avatar
blaurebell
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:24 pm
Location: Spain
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Spanish (B2-C1), French (B2+ passive), Italian (A2), Russian (Beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
x 2240

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby blaurebell » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:01 pm

I find that when I'm at a B2 level the only skill that declines rapidly is speaking fluency, followed by listening comprehension which declines a tad more slowly. With reading only the reading speed declines, usually not the actual level of comprehension. To get to my previous reading speed it usually takes me a book of 500 pages. A few seasons of a series and my listening comprehension is back. And a bout of speaking every day for about a month each year takes care of fluency. If you want less of a short burst approach: With daily reading and watching for fun + speaking once a week you might even improve by accident ;)
11 x
: 20 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - В поисках камня
: 14325 / 35000 LWT Known

: 17 / 55 FSI Spanish Basic
: 100 / 116 GdUdE B
: 8 / 72 Duolingo reverse Spanish -> German

User avatar
arthaey
Brown Belt
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:11 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Languages: :
EN (native);
ES (adv receptive, int productive);
FR (false beginner);
DE (lapsed beg);
ASL (lapsed beg);
HU (tourist)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3864&view=unread#unread
x 1675
Contact:

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby arthaey » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:40 am

blaurebell wrote:you might even improve by accident ;)

Hehehe, this might well be the unofficial motto of many of us! Present company definitely included. ;)
3 x
Posts in: FrenchGermanHungarianSpanish
NaNoWriMo: 10,000 words
Corrections welcome in any language; I prefer an informal register.

User avatar
Teango
Blue Belt
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:55 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawaiʻi
Languages: en (n)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 9&p=235545
x 2943
Contact:

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby Teango » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:01 pm

Professor Argüelles wrote several interesting posts about this very topic on the old forum (and for those new to the forum, let me simply say that he has an incredible wealth of experience and knowledge when it comes to maintaining a lot of languages). Knowing how easy it is for these gems to get lost and forgotten amongst the flotsam and jetsam, I've reposted some key quotes below where he recommends how much time you need to invest a day in order to maintain a language, as well as how best to divide your time across the day:

ProfArguelles (April 27, 2008) wrote:I have written before that 15 minutes a day is generally sufficient to maintain a language, but this is not enough to get satisfaction from its exploration...I think I would opt for the greater depth of being able to read, at an advanced level, the literature whose vehicles they are for a more substantial 30 minutes a day each.


ProfArguelles (Dec 16, 2008) wrote:...there is no reason why you should not be able to balance a maximum number of simultaneous languages at that minimum rate of 15 minutes a day, each and every single day. However, your rate of progress will be slow, perhaps merely frustratingly so, but perhaps also unacceptably so given your need to begin reading certain languages for your formal studies. In the latter case, then I would recommend concentrating for at least 30 minutes at a time.


ProfArguelles (Nov 4, 2007) wrote:...in actual practice 15 minutes a day in isolation is probably too little to sustain a long-term quest. In answer to the point raised by Mr. Frenkfeld, I concur that even 30 minutes of one language is unlikely to sustain the momentum required to get firmly grounded in it over a 6-year period. For that, yes, I completely concur again that at least 1 hour a day is necessary...


ProfArguelles (Nov 4, 2007) wrote:Keep in mind that the brain really cannot remain focused on a task like language acquisition for more than a maximum of 30 minutes and that your optimal time span for study may be only 10 or 15 minutes. Experiment with these, and if, for example, you have an hour a day to study, don't do it all at once, but rather in two half hour blocks or four quarter hour chunks or six ten minute sessions...


ProfArguelles (Apr 13, 2008) wrote:You will probably profit most if you can do these three [note: ProfArguelles refers to 3 potential methods in response to another member's question here] back to back, for 15 minutes each, 2x each day, once early in the morning, once later in the day.


I imagine this all depends of a combination of factors, which vary from person to person. For instance, how motivated you are right now to do something in a particular language can range from -% (if I see one more Spanish conjugation, I'll throw up...) to +% (what do you mean I just spent the last 12 hours watching Stargate in French!?) It's also worth noting how similar the languages you maintain are to languages you already know well (there may be some discounts to be had here), as well as how much incidental contact you have with your languages outside of study.

Speaking from my own small personal experience, I've found that changing an activity, language, or resource every 10 minutes can make the whole job of studying multiple languages seem so much lighter and help maintain overall focus and motivation throughout a longer session, especially in the earlier stages of learning a language. Saying that however, there are times when I have a Leeroy Jenkins moment and dive into several hours studying straight, or find myself surfing atop an epic wave of motivation and somewhat deceptive optimism. And once I reach at least an upper intermediate level, I usually end up totally engrossed in doing something I genuinely enjoy through the language. Pulling me away from this type of activity every 10 minutes would probably only lead to me snarling, gnashing my teeth, and cursing (in the language of course ;) ).
12 x

User avatar
guiguixx1
Orange Belt
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Languages: French (N), English (C2), Dutch (C1), Spanish (C1), Italian (B2), Esperanto (A2), Portuguese (B2), German (A2), Catalan (passively)
x 238
Contact:

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby guiguixx1 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:59 am

I think many of us will have very different opinion on this subject, and I believe it depends much on everyone's brain, learning ability and environment. I've already noticed that after reaching B1-B2 level in Spanish, if I stop using it for months, it doesn't get that rusty and I can easily polish it up if speaking for 15 minutes or reading a bit. 2 months ago, I had a 1 hour conversation in Spanish. I hadn't been using it much for a couple of months, and still, after 5-10 minutes of warming up, I was back on track. Nevertheless, it depends on your level. If I were to stop practising Portuguese for example, for which I'm more or less at A2 but without formal teaching, grammar or vocabulary study (rather mere in- and output), I guess it would be much harder to get it back.

Still, I have already noticed a strange pattern (and some polyglot friends of mine have noticed the same with their experience): when working a lot on a language and then changing my language focus to study another one for months, when I go back to the first language and polish it up, my level and ease seem to have improved...But it might just be an impression.

Anyway, I think that at B2 level, the language is integrated deep enough to be "resistant". If I were in your position, I wouldn't use it more than once or twice a week and see, on the long run, if I'm still happy with my level. Of course, if you just use it for 5-min chuncks, you may feel it's decaying, but if you use it for 20-30' so that you can "immerge" yourself a bit more, your instant level should increase quickly (this is what happens with me anyway).
4 x
Language learning and teaching website as a French teacher of Dutch and English: cameleondeslangues.be

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby IronMike » Mon May 01, 2017 3:12 pm

As long as it takes...

(This thread is giving me déjà vu...I swear I've read a couple threads on this same subject in the last year or so.)
0 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

User avatar
Teango
Blue Belt
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:55 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawaiʻi
Languages: en (n)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 9&p=235545
x 2943
Contact:

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby Teango » Mon May 01, 2017 7:17 pm

IronMike wrote:This thread is giving me déjà vu...I swear I've read a couple threads on this same subject in the last year or so.

Just wait until you've been lurking/posting on a forum for over a decade...I like to think of it as a special form of spaced repetition. ;)
16 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby Cavesa » Tue May 02, 2017 5:02 am

arthaey wrote:
blaurebell wrote:you might even improve by accident ;)

Hehehe, this might well be the unofficial motto of many of us! Present company definitely included. ;)


Happened to me :-)
............
Now seriously.

I barely got my DELF B2 in 2010. After that, I was mostly maintaining the language, at least that had been the plan. Maintain and slowly improve, with no time for systematic attempts to improves. My old logs were quite funny. But I got caught up in having fun, digested tons of input (like 250 hours of tv series and around 12000 pages of books) and I was almost ready for DALF C2, just needed more grammar (Progessive series is great), and I paid a tutor for writing guidance, which was necessary due to the nature of the exam (for example the Cambridge exams for English learners are much less difficult in this aspect. And funnily, DALF C1 writing appears to be more difficult than C2). We talked but I wasn't improving after the first hour, during which I removed the dust from my active French and found it in much better shape than before, my writing was much more of a trouble (btw I think there might be an especially hot cauldron in hell, prepared for the authors of most Compte Rendu vs Résumé explanations). I passed DALF C2 in 2015 (the time flies, it feels as if it was yesterday :-D). Five years of maintenance and having fun. And I accidentally improved. During the whole time, I had only a few touristy opportunities to "practice", which were worthless. Buying a skipass and ordering in a restaurant, that is no practice for an intermediate or advanced learner. So, having fun (and procrastinating with French) proved to be the key :-D

So, my two cents based on this experience:

1.Regularily doesn't necessarily mean every day. I think it is much better to spend a few hours in the language once or twice per week, than fifteen minutes per day. Tiny bits (even when done every day) are quite worthless, in my opinion, as they don't give you time to really immerse yourself. Or just switch your brain to French in general, whether the goal is immersion or a more analytical exercise. Just don't get weeks grow into months. I could have "sped up" the process, if only I hadn't taken approximately two years of breaks in sum. No idea whether I would have gotten to the level the whole two years earlier, but some time would have been saved for sure.

2.Have fun. You've deserved it, this is what you have been investing your time and efforts into the language for. Congratulations! And it is the only way to get yourself to spend enough time with the language to maintain and even improve slowly. No matter what you find fun and interesting, French won't disappoint you.

3.At this point, it is quite hard to make the improvement process significantly faster, whether or not you try to push it. And given the nature of material you need to work with the most at this level, there is a very blurry line between maintenance and slow improvement. A decision "I'll just maintain it, C levels are too much of a luxury for me, I'll focus on other stuff" can actually be very beneficial, as it removes the stress from perceived lack of progress.

4.Don't make my mistake, do some grammar exercise every once in a while. If you are very responsible, do a work book chapter every two or three weeks. You'll learn a lot through immersion. Really a lot. But some things still tend to get rusty (I noticed it while writing, which is simply weaker than my speaking), and you'll notice it once you want to exhumate your active skills.

5.Spanish will feel very easy now. I remember that, it was fascinating! But don't forget it is a language of its own. Your passive skills are likely to skyrocket in just weeks or months. The active skills are gonna snail behind. The system is very similar, but you still need to watch out for differences. There are false friends. There is a lot of different stuff actually. Spanish is said to be easy (I had to fight this same nonsense at home recently), but it is not exactly true. Yes, it is much easier than Mandarin. Yes, it seems easy at the beginning compared to English, German, or French. But the struggle starts a bit later. It is very hard to speak and write it really well. There are very few learners, who got to such a level, compared to the millions of beginners.

6.Interference may affect both your French and Spanish for some time. But it is much less of a problem, than people fear. The key is to improve your langauges, especially the weaker one. And stay in contact with French. This is more or less what people around here agree on, even though there are many threads about intricacies of the interference.

7.Courses and grammarbooks and such stuff can still be useful, as I mentioned in point 4. But all this was based on your B2 mention in your post. If it is self-assessment or (worse) the info from your university website, you may not be entirely B2 yet and perhaps it might be a good decision to add some more French work on top of your other program for now. I am meaning no offence, I hope you don't see it that way! There is just a lot of difference between the progress from B1 on and from B2 on. And most schools are not entirely honest about the level their students normally achieve.
6 x

golyplot
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:41 pm
Languages: Am. English (N), German, French, ASL (abandoned), Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Japanese (N2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12230
x 3404

Re: Hours needed to "maintain" a language

Postby golyplot » Wed May 10, 2017 5:44 am

blaurebell wrote:I find that when I'm at a B2 level the only skill that declines rapidly is speaking fluency, followed by listening comprehension which declines a tad more slowly. With reading only the reading speed declines, usually not the actual level of comprehension. To get to my previous reading speed it usually takes me a book of 500 pages. A few seasons of a series and my listening comprehension is back. And a bout of speaking every day for about a month each year takes care of fluency. If you want less of a short burst approach: With daily reading and watching for fun + speaking once a week you might even improve by accident ;)


In my experience, listening ability declines very slowly once you reach B1-B2 level. I often go months without doing anything German at all, but I can still watch a German movie and understand nearly everything.
0 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests