Questions about Dutch sentences

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Jar-Ptitsa
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:22 pm

Dutch word order is muhc more flexible than in german (although it's between English and German and more similar to German).

Your sentence is an example, but also the possible inversion or non-inversion of double verbs, for example:

Ik weet niet wat ze hebben gedaan.
Ik weet niet wat ze gedaan hebben.

The 'conclusie' sentence seems like note form.

geleidelijk
seems incomplete without aan
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby smallwhite » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:28 am

tommus wrote:The dutchgrammar.com page specifically refers to a "core" sentence. "It is very common to place something after the right side of the core sentence". I suppose it implies, or maybe specifically includes, clauses, as in this case, after "dat". Not sure.


In fact, I believe they should've said "clause" instead of "sentence", to cover both main clauses and subordinating clauses (and thus relative clauses). Here are 2 more sentences from our love story:

RED = main clause
BLUE = subordinating clause
UNDERLINE = prepositional phrase placed after right-most verb of the relevant clause.

Het wijst erop dat het sperma wellicht een bron van eiwitten is voor de herten.
Google Translate: It indicates that the sperm may be a source of protein for the deer.

En dus besloot hij zijn toevlucht te nemen tot de sikaherten waarmee de makaken toch al vrij nauw samenleven.
Google Translate: And so he decided to resort to the sika deer which still live macaques already pretty close.

So my conclusion is, if you want to defer the prepositional phrase,:

First part -> conjugated verb -> TMP etc -> right-most verbs -> prepositional phrase -> Subord conjunction -> subject and TMP etc -> all verbs -> prepositional phrase

or inverted,

Subord conjunction -> subject and TMP etc -> all verbs -> prepositional phrase -> conjugated verb -> TMP etc -> right-most verbs -> prepositional phrase.

That is,

I am convinced for sure that he is killed by someone.

or inverted,

That he is killed by someone am I convinced for sure.
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby tommus » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:08 am

"Als je de aarde vanuit de ruimte bekijkt, besef je dat die klein en kwetsbaar is."

If you look at the Earth from space, you realise that it is small and vulnerable.

Question: Could it also be written with "het" instead of "die"? ("... besef je dat het klein en kwetsbaar is.")

If so, which is preferable?

If not, why not?

Sentence is from: NewScientist.nl
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:53 pm

tommus wrote:"Als je de aarde vanuit de ruimte bekijkt, besef je dat die klein en kwetsbaar is."

If you look at the Earth from space, you realise that it is small and vulnerable.

Question: Could it also be written with "het" instead of "die"? ("... besef je dat het klein en kwetsbaar is.")

If so, which is preferable?

If not, why not?

Sentence is from: NewScientist.nl


'die' is better than 'het' because it's de aarde and not het aarde. It's the gender of the word 'aarde'. Neuter words are 'het'

You can use 'het' for more general things when you don't refer back.

I think that tarvos wlll explain better.
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby tommus » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:40 pm

"Hij heeft meer weg van een langgerekt zeepaard."

It is more like an elongated seahorse.

I had not seen "meer weg van" before. Is that the normal and most-used way of saying "more like", or are there other ways that are more often used?

EDIT

Article in De Trouw
Last edited by tommus on Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:44 pm

I don't know it. I know 'lijkt op' 'lijkt erop' 'lijkt alsof' 'is zoals' 'ziet uit als' etc

you didn't react to my previous answer. if you prefer that I don't reply then say so, and I will save my time.
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby tommus » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:58 pm

"Een expeditie werd op touw gezet."

An expedition was set up.

Is this the correct translation? Is this what people would say or it this normally only found in writing? What other ways could it be written or said? For example: "Een expeditie werd opgericht"?

EDIT
Source: Same article as my previous post.
Last edited by tommus on Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby tarvos » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:23 pm

tommus wrote:"Als je de aarde vanuit de ruimte bekijkt, besef je dat die klein en kwetsbaar is."

If you look at the Earth from space, you realise that it is small and vulnerable.

Question: Could it also be written with "het" instead of "die"? ("... besef je dat het klein en kwetsbaar is.")

If so, which is preferable?

If not, why not?

Sentence is from: NewScientist.nl


Impossible - you are referring back to "de aarde". Het would refer back to a het-woord, which "de aarde isn't".

"Een expeditie werd op touw gezet."

An expedition was set up.

Is this the correct translation? Is this what people would say or it this normally only found in writing? What other ways could it be written or said? For example: "Een expeditie werd opgericht"?


Opgericht is founded (of an organization). Georganiseerd would be more neutral.

"Hij heeft meer weg van een langgerekt zeepaard."

It is more like an elongated seahorse.

I had not seen "meer weg van" before. Is that the normal and most-used way of saying "more like", or are there other ways that are more often used?


"Hij lijkt meer op een langgerekt zeepaard" is the other alternative, but both are equally usable
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby tommus » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:46 pm

tarvos wrote:Impossible - you are referring back to "de aarde". Het would refer back to a het-woord, which "de aarde isn't"


Thank you.

I sometimes see this sort of thing written as two separate sentences, like this:

"Als je de aarde vanuit de ruimte bekijkt, besef je dat die klein en kwetsbaar is. Die is ook blauw en mooi."

In other words, it is a sentence in which "die" is the subject of a sentence, not a relative pronoun starting a relative clause. Is that correct Dutch grammar, to have it as a separate sentence, beginning with a capital letter after a period? I would offer a specific example but it is not easy to find with Google. I'll watch for it in my reading.
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Re: Questions about Dutch sentences

Postby tarvos » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:19 pm

It's fine in principle, but here I'd prefer to use "hij", not die. Belgians may say "zij" (according to them aarde is feminine, most likely).
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