Cantonese advice

[lionofjudah99]

I have recently decided that I would like to learn Cantonese. I have gotten my hands on the Cantonese FSI course with audio and am planning on using that. I have a few questions that I would like to ask more experienced Cantonese learners and speakers.

1) Generally, what advice do you have?

2) I plan on learning the characters at a much later stage, maybe even learning how to read and write Mandarin before learning written Cantonese, since I do not want to study the Cantonese version of Standard Chinese. Is not learning how to read at first the wrong way to go?

3) If learning how to read is a necessity (or very useful for learning how to speak properly), could I get away with just learning how to write spoken Cantonese?

[MarkLondon]

2) I plan on learning the characters at a much later stage, maybe even learning how to read and write Mandarin before learning written Cantonese, since I do not want to study the Cantonese version of Standard Chinese. Is not learning how to read at first the wrong way to go?

Isn't Cantonese written exactly the same way as Mandarin (and various other Chinese languages)? The only main difference being an increased use of traditional rather than simplified characters?

[lionofjudah99]

2) I plan on learning the characters at a much later stage, maybe even learning how to read and write Mandarin before learning written Cantonese, since I do not want to study the Cantonese version of Standard Chinese. Is not learning how to read at first the wrong way to go?

Isn't Cantonese written exactly the same way as Mandarin (and various other Chinese languages)? The only main difference being an increased use of traditional rather than simplified characters?

My understanding is that this is true for formal/official documents, but that in other contexts (transcribing speech, some books, internet forums, etc.), Cantonese speakers write the vernacular directly, which has led to the borrowing/creation of new characters. That's why I referred to the first one as "the Cantonese version of Standard Chinese" and the other one as just "Cantonese". That being said, I don't even know any Chinese languages, so I may be wrong about this...

[Querneus]

You're correct, lionofjudah99.

By the way, today I learned that the long-awaited ABC Cantonese-English dictionary by Robert Bauer is apparently going to be published this coming February. I've looked at sample entries for the past few months and they're just gorgeous--many of the entries will have an example sentence with Chinese characters, Jyutping transcription AND English translation. I hope to buy a dead-tree copy.

[crush]

1) Generally, what advice do you have?

Have you studied Mandarin before? I'm currently working through the Glossika Cantonese course and if you've studied Mandarin before i think it'll take you a long ways. I'm not sure how it'd be if i hadn't studied Mandarin first, though. I feel like it might be a bit overwhelming.

I've just finished the first book (1,000 sentences) and am starting to feel pretty comfortable speaking it. A lot of times if i don't know the Cantonese word i just "Cantonese-ify" the Mandarin version and can generally get my point across. If you can find someone to ask your questions to, that's even better. Usually in each set of 50 sentences i've got 2-3 questions, some words or phrases i don't quite understand. The books in Mandarin i've found for studying Cantonese here are of a pretty low quality, random non-standard romanizations, no tone marks (or just plain wrong tones), etc. I have to look up all the new words myself to find out how they're pronounced.

2) I plan on learning the characters at a much later stage, maybe even learning how to read and write Mandarin before learning written Cantonese, since I do not want to study the Cantonese version of Standard Chinese. Is not learning how to read at first the wrong way to go?

It's a pain to write in Cantonese, most people i've met use Pinyin (ie. Mandarin) to type Chinese characters. To type 系 (the Cantonese equivalent of 是), you type in xi. 边度 (bindou) becomes biandu, etc. Google has a Cantonese keyboard for Android that works pretty well, but it's a pain switching to it whenever i wanna type in Cantonese, so i generally just type in Mandarin.

There's very little literature/music available in colloquial Cantonese, so i'm just focusing on the spoken version.

3) If learning how to read is a necessity (or very useful for learning how to speak properly), could I get away with just learning how to write spoken Cantonese?

I'm not that far into my studies, i just started in August, but i'd say that Cantonese is largely a spoken language and you'd be fine not learning how to read it, just so long as you have regular contact with it to maintain it.

If you have any specific questions, i'd be happy to answer those, though i'm just a beginner as well. But if you can afford it (and have experience with Mandarin or another Chinese language), the Glossika course is definitely worth the money.

EDIT: Pleco also has some dictionaries and Cantonese support, it's not perfect but it helps a bit. I really wish there were a comprehensive Cantonese<->Mandarin dictionary. If anyone knows of one, please let me know. Also, in Guangdong they write Cantonese mostly with simplified characters. The characters are the same, but the pronunciation and grammar are different.

[Daristani]

Just in case you're not already aware of it, this forum seems to be pretty active as a venue for learners of Cantonese to discuss a variety of issues: http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/

[kevinliu]

2) I plan on learning the characters at a much later stage, maybe even learning how to read and write Mandarin before learning written Cantonese, since I do not want to study the Cantonese version of Standard Chinese. Is not learning how to read at first the wrong way to go?

Isn't Cantonese written exactly the same way as Mandarin (and various other Chinese languages)? The only main difference being an increased use of traditional rather than simplified characters?

"Cantonese written exactly the same way as Mandarin"? Well that's not so certain!

Mandarin and Cantonese are two SPOKEN styles/dialects of Chinese language.

Mandarin is the official state language of China and is the lingua franca of the country. It is in many areas the primary spoken language, including Beijing and Shanghai, although many provinces still retain their own local dialect. Mandarin is also the main dialect in Taiwan and Singapore. Cantonese is spoken by the people of Hong Kong, Macau and Guangdong province, including Guangzhou (previously Canton in English).

People in Hong Kong and Taiwan write in Traditional Chinese, and people in Mainland China and Singapore write in Simplified. So, is Cantonese written in Simplified or in Traditional version? It depends where it is used.

In lionofjudah99's case, I am sure he is talking about the characters used in Hong Kong, which would be Traditional Chinese of course.