Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby Serpent » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:25 am

PeterMollenburg wrote:
Serpent wrote:(On a side note, did emk take the same exam? or Cavesa?)
I am not sure about the exams emk has done, but I was certainly hoping Cavesa would respond, as I knew she'd taken the C2 exam.
He passed B2. Tbh I thought there were several types of French exams - I didn't realize DELF and DALF are complementary, ie there's no DELF for C2 nor DALF for A2. But reading about emk's experience with B2 should definitely help you figure out whether this level is too easy, too hard or just right for you.

Nice DLI result. But yeah seems slow.
Definitely try Dialang for the writing, vocab and grammar. Of course especially writing is hard to test, ask yourself whether you could really write like that.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby smallwhite » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:43 am

iguanamon wrote:The courses are there to give you a foundation to build upon, just like schooling is there to give you a foundation to build upon in life. You can learn enough about a profession in school to get you a job, but actually doing the job teaches you more.

(Quoting iguanamon just to use his excellent analogy, not really to address him.)

I agree, but I'd like to point out that our top priority right now is passing a B2 exam - equivalent to passing a school-leaving exam in the analogy above - and not learning all the extra nice-to-haves - equivalent to further on-the-job experience in the analogy above. Because Dutch is currently the opportunity cost, and one which I find really worth learning in PM's case, as it opens career and emigration doors for him and he's already learned quite a bit of it.

That is, I think that the red part is B2 and our current top priority, and the blue part C1 and extra:
"The courses are there to give you a foundation to build upon, just like schooling is there to give you a foundation to build upon in life. You can learn enough about a profession in school to get you a job, but actually doing the job teaches you more."



Sorry, PM, I don't know how to read your test results - which numbers go with which paragraph, and what "0 100" meant.



PeterMollenburg wrote:
smallwhite wrote:If you were to take a surprise exam now, what marks do you think you'll get?


I'm trying to work this out with assessments, i will report back when I have sth concrete, but i'll have a guess at your question.

I wanted you to guess before you did a test, so all's good.
PeterMollenburg wrote:i'll have a guess at your question. Let's imagine it's a B2 exam.

7/10 Reading
6.5/10 Writing
6.5/10 Listening
5/10 Speaking
6.5/10 Grammar
7/10 Vocabulary

So it's a pass, then? Or if the passing mark is 60% then a pass except Speaking. Then, what are you worrying about / what are you waiting for / what are you taking a B2 in 2017 for / why are you not focussing on speaking / :?: :?: :?: ?
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:07 am

smallwhite wrote:Sorry, PM, I don't know how to read your test results - which numbers go with which paragraph, and what "0 100" meant.


"0 100" simply means that's the scale on which one is assessed (ie out of 100, per cent, if you will).
There was a graphic in between the zero and 100 with an arrow pointing to where I fit on that scale. On the first scale (content questions) I scored 88.89%, on the second (linguistic questions), I scored 60.61%, thus an overall average score of 74.75% (which I calculated, not them).
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:09 am

smallwhite wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:i'll have a guess at your question. Let's imagine it's a B2 exam.

7/10 Reading
6.5/10 Writing
6.5/10 Listening
5/10 Speaking
6.5/10 Grammar
7/10 Vocabulary

So it's a pass, then? Or if the passing mark is 60% then a pass except Speaking. Then, what are you worrying about / what are you waiting for / what are you taking a B2 in 2017 for / why are you not focussing on speaking / :?: :?: :?: ?


I believe extensive reading will assist in improving all other areas to varying degrees. After reading some posts earlier this morning, I've concluded that listening will also do this. Thus, main focuses (current train of thought) is to focus on listening and extensive reading in particular, with some degree of time spent on the other three areas i've decided on: speaking, course work and intensive reading (specific vocab acquisition). There is still a lot of room for improvement all round which requires extensive reading and listening, i still enjoy the process of a grammar/suitable course (likely aimed at exam content), and vocab still needs expansion. As for speaking it's definitely part of my routine, but I feel it's unrealistic to attend to this every single day, given my situation, but as this thread is all about feedback I still may yet change my tune on all these decisions. My study plan/schedule is evolving as I receive more quality feedback and continue with my assessment

Edit: Had two duplicate posts containing the above 2 messages (one from this post, one the post above), tried to delete one of the posts, but couldn't, so I separated the quotes into the 2 posts.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:02 am

Cavesa wrote:I took both DELF B2 and DALF C2, as Serpent said.

If you passed B1 two years ago, and kept working, it is not unlikely you are beyond B2 now, at least in some skills. It would be worth further consideration. The "can do" self-assessment grid (which is not the short wikipedia cefr definition) is helpful in such situations, so are curricula of coursebooks of the level (sometimes more than the content of these :-D). And you can have get approximate speaking testing for free or cheap at many langauge schools or testing centers. Testing centers are better, or people who trully have experience with the exams. Usual teachers and tutors are only little better than self-assessment.


Actually, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "testing centers". I would've classed the Alliance Française as a language school but a testing center at the same time. It's not a big deal as I get the idea. Probably as far as where I live and surrounds, the AF an hour or so away is probably the best option when compared to some other language teaching organisations/schools/evening classes, which likely only teach half baked beginner's courses for the most part.

Cavesa wrote:Assuming you are overall B2 (theory now), you can surely get to C2 reading and listening skills in those several months, if you put in enough time. You could get the active skills there, but that is much more risky, and I'd count with November rather than March.And don't forget that passing the exams requires as well a specific skillset, which is a fact that may be and advantage of yours, or the opposite. It depends on your study style.


Good advice, thank you Cavesa.

Cavesa wrote:A French exam specific note: DALF C1 and C2 are a bit different from other testing systems, as far as I know, in two aspects:

I.you choose humanities or science variant beforehand, I don't know about any other exam with this feature. Most people choose humanities, which I think is not a wise choise, as the science option is much more predictable and the difficulty level of individual tasks in exams, mock exams, preparatory books is much more balanced and similar. When it comes to humanities, you can easily face a task worthy of a philosophy student at university, or one in which you don't know what to write as the dossier is totally stupid and without substance. Science, which includes as well topics like ethics and a other humanities, is not such a problem for someone with highschool education who reads popular science magazines or websites. (And the French ones are great and can prepare you well).

II.In some ways, the C2 exam is easier than the C1 exam. You've got two skills instead of four, so proven stronger comprehension can probably balance out some of the formal faults of the production skills. And the C2 writing tasks, while formally hard and based on the style of French lycée education, seemed to make more sense to me than the C1 tasks I had seen. But this might be subjective a bit, but in that case, it is not just my opinion.


Also, very useful advice coming from someone who knows from experience, so thanks again!

Cavesa wrote:To your question number 3:
I can tell you about my experience from B2 to C2, but I thought I have already flooded the forum too much with this :-D

Overall time: 5 years. March 2010 barely passed B2 (but I wrote about it a few times, some points were lost on the examinators breaking the rules, but fortunately I made it through nonetheless). March 2015 passed C2 with good score. Average score in writing, very good score in speaking. But take into account that those were not 5 years of intensive studies. At first, I was doing almost nothing for a year or two. Than I was mostly having fun with the langauge, which was the largest part of my progress. I was putting in a lot of time but over an extended period, I wasn't in a hurry, and progress wasn't my priority. Than I got to somewhat more intensive studying, with more grammar review and practice and writing and paying a tutor. This last phase wasn't intensively ideal either, as my medicine studies(and a bit of lazyness) interfered. And actually, till a week or two before signing up, I had been planning DALF C1, not C2.

Summed up: I think a highly disciplined learner could make the same progress in two or three years.


I'm hoping to get there in under 2 years max, but I will not die if that happens, so we'll see, and of course, ideally, much sooner would be better.

Cavesa wrote:Reading: I could actually look these numbers up, if I had a bit more time now. But I had read approximately one original SC (10000 pages) of books between my B2 and C2 exams. How many hours is that? Not sure. At first I was a bit slower, later I got to my standard speed of approximately 40 pages per hour (talking about A5 normal font, or the poche format).

I certainly need to get my reading powering ahead and my SC numbers to improve.

Cavesa wrote:Writing: this is what I should have been doing much more! Even without any feedback, the practice is highly important. I had writen like 20 exam-like tasks and hadn't been spending enough time on them (due to microbiology mostly). That was a huge waste. I could have prepared myself better.

This is a skill rather easily ignored. I ought to keep that strongly in mind.

Cavesa wrote:What I struggled with (briefly, as I had described it before):
-time. Both the absolute amount and my organisation. Give yourself the time to reread your tasks.

With relation to time in an exam itself, I've always been slow in exam situations but thorough (at school, university for ex.), and if confident with my knowledge I would definitely review my answers with scrutiny as I had the time having not struggled with answers to questions I didn't fully grasp initially. Thus, in theory, I need to be very well prepared and feel like I'm on top of my French in order to go through the responses efficiently enough to take the extra time where needed.

Cavesa wrote:-information. The French are probably not aware of the fact that writing in general is taught differently in each country. Writing an essay means something different in France, in UK, in the Czech Republic, it is not just a matter of the langauge skills. And getting resources explaining the writing genres and formal expectations in enough detail is very hard. There is one not bad book by PUG, one book on writing by CLE (which I didn't get my hands on), some notes in Alter Ego courses (the B2 were quite useful for the exam, the later not as much as I had hoped), a few websites, and a tutor who had studied in France. This kind of information and writing feedback was the main reason why I had paid a tutor. But still I should have probably found someone with more experience with the DALF preparation, but those are extremely rare. Some of the aspects are pretty crazy too, especially the need to balance between "copying too much" and "getting too far from the dossier" differently for each genre.

This is almost daunting. And with the time I'm going to need to go through exam prep books, as well as be generally working on all language skills as a part of my schedule probably similar to one of the ones I've detailed in this thread, even if my language skills are gauged as C1 in assessments between now and May 2017 when the first exam is, I'll struggle for time to get my head around the whole process of responding correctly in the formats required. We'll see what eventuates. For this reason and some others, I'm leaning towards not trying to cram all that info in before March even if I were deemed to be a C1 or C2 level French language user (which i'm not), otherwise I risk focusing too much of my time again on course books (exam prep ones).

Cavesa wrote:-time 2: practice writing at your pace at first, aiming for quality and nitpicking. Than faster. Do not prepare detailled bruillons during the exam. The time limit is very tight. I hadn't practice writing with a stopwatch, I should have.

What a good idea! I'll definitely employ the use of a stopwatch at some point for practise.

Cavesa wrote:Listening: extremely important and the base of speaking (as I have writen before): approximately 1-1,5 SC. So, something between 150 and 225 hours. Perhaps more? I'd need to look it up but I think it could have been actually more lie 250 hours This was the key to my high oral comprehension and production score.. Huge amount of listening were not only a way to make me understand perfectly the audio task (I think the amount of details and their logical order got me some points too). But this is how I learnt to speak. With the tutor, I improved during the first half an hour as I got rid of rust. But after that, it was maintenance. I was making mistakes (and having them corrected) like once or twice per lesson, more only at 7pm after a long day at university. I made a few mistakes during the exam too, but I still got a high score, I think my ability to correct them and to not crumble due to the mistakes saved my face a bit. And I must say a part of the problem were sometimes too easy speaking tasks from the tutor. But as a maintanance, it was very good, I went to the exam without rust. But those 250 hours of listening were the learning part of speaking. The assimilation and immersion changed my barely B2 speaking. During those 5 years, I had actively spoken French only during a few holidays and even that not so much.


Okay, now I am different to you Cavesa (in case you didn't know ;) ), but based on what you found useful for preparation I think i've got a good plan, one that allows for a lot of listening practise as well as a lot of reading at the forefont. Exam prep, writing, speaking and vocab acquisition all feature, but now i'm feeling quite good about pushing reading and listening to the forefront of my study focus, with the addition of a tutor or two to come in the near future as well. This is all really valuable feedback!

Cavesa wrote:Grammar: This is again something I could have done better. I did some grammar review, I went briefly through the Gr. Prog. Perfectionnement book. It was published a bit late for me, unfortunately. But I am to blame the most. Spend the hours on grammar review and practice to avoid losing poinsts stupidly. Yes, it is hard to write naturally, especially those crazy compte-rendus and such stuff. It is hard to acquire those phrase construction habits and "idiomatic" ways. But it is totally possible and within your power to get your grammar to shape.

This is actually something that applies to all three higher levels. Up to B1, it is about getting a message across in more and more situations and with a bit more detail at each step. From B2 on, you are expected to know the base well. And with each level, mistakes look more and more stupid.



Wow, with all the preparation and language improvement I must do (it's a long road ahead), I would not be surprised if this does take me at least 2 years and that I do shitty the first time round even having to resit it just because I may not be able to get my head around it all the first time, we'll see :)

Cavesa wrote:The test format: this is important too. Yes, you can in general pass langauge exams without having opened any preparatory book. I passed my DELF B2 and CAE like that. But I don't recommend it. It is not a matter of "cheating" or "faking a higher level", as some langauge learners decribe it. It is a matter of being prepared and not risking losing the exam on formalities or specific requirements you won't normally encounter in other resources.

Yeah, when I did my B1 I didn't do any preparation for a couple of reasons. First it's a relatively easy level, so one could argue that not much preparation is needed, and secondly I wanted to really do it with no preparation to get a true value of my level as silly as that might sound. I think I thought I'd be "cheating" or "faking a higher level" as you describe some people calling it. I did not realise that there were such massive gaps between the CEFR levels at that time. Now I do, and I understand what you mean when you say you can't just fake those higher levels. Still I think remnants of this sentiment were still hanging around the other day when I made comments about shortcuts to exams. Anyway, for B2 and beyond, I certainly believe the more preparation the better and intend on working through exam preparation material.

Cavesa wrote:To your question 4: If you are puting four hours a day to French, than giving up one hour for Dutch may not mean any difference. But if you are talking about one hour out of two, I woudln't do that, were I in your place. Learning another langauge on top of this phase of French is definitely ok, but it is up to your consideration to divide your time well.

Dutch is out, as you probably know at this point.

Cavesa wrote:I hope my answers will be useful a bit. Feel free to ask anything more.

Definitely useful, thank you Cavesa for taking the time to respond in such detail. I'm sure I'll have questions for you, but they are likely to be some time away, as I get into the nitty gritty of exam prep.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:27 am

sillygoose1 wrote:I'm going to go against the grain a bit here. I don't think a C1 or a C2 takes as long as some people make it out to. Then again, I've had some different circumstances. I've stuck to French for three years before I started another language, about six years total now; I'm a young guy with no real responsibilities yet; and I continue to only focus on French a lot.

I could have achieved a higher level earlier. How? By not being afraid of failure early on and just diving right into it. One reason why it took me so long was because if I couldn't understand a dialogue in a show, I'd get frustrated and leave French for a few weeks. I babied myself way too much and didn't want to leave my comfort zone. I was scared that I was wasting time listening to material that I couldn't even understand. One day, I said the hell with this and just decided to marathon a few series because I wanted to see them and there were no subs available in English. After about 50 episodes, everything was clear to me. I caught on and did the same with novels. 500 pages didn't scare me anymore and I learned a lot of vocab. Then I just started to get bored and watch movies. Now I can understand like 90-95% of what I watch in French from shows like Engrenages and Braquo to standup comedy to movies. The marathon of movies, books, and series took me about 6 months. But as I said, I was out of school and work for medical reasons and had literally nothing else to do. I probably reached a higher level in less than 6 months but I didn't notice because it was fun.

Basically, you need to stop "studying." It's time to bust out of your shell and get into it. Pick up some classic literature, watch an easy sitcom then progress onto harder material. I'd recommend H and Nos chers voisins.


Hey sillygoose1,

A couple of questions. When you did you marathon of a few series, did you ever stop and study it intensively like iguanamon did (pausing, making time stamps and the like, analysing vocab etc)? Or did you simply just keep watching episode after episode one after the other without stopping? Did you re-watch episodes? I'm curious about your techniques. At what level do you think you were when you started this marathon?

And the same for your reading. If you followed the same techniques as your watching, did you not look up any words?
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby tarvos » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:35 am

At B2, you should be reading most texts quite fluidly already in my experience. You should be pausing only to look up certain slightly more common words that keep cropping up in texts, or a key word that really changes the meaning of a paragraph. I haven't really done any intensive work above B2, and I find it kind of boring. What I did when it came to French was spend a week in France and buy tons of Amélie Nothomb books (I read like six in a week). I didn't have a big dictionary with me, so I was forced to just read on and on. And I found out that after a while I got through them faster and faster. Nowadays I can finish that type of novel in a day and understand the plot without problems. There may be a few words I don't understand, but they either don't matter or I look them up if I'm curious.

The goal is to get into a flow of reading. Sometimes it's about the massive exposure and not about the details. Details occasionally can be swept aside. What you want is context. Many words can be gleaned from context, and for that you need reading speed.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby Cavesa » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:29 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:Actually, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "testing centers". I would've classed the Alliance Française as a language school but a testing center at the same time. It's not a big deal as I get the idea. Probably as far as where I live and surrounds, the AF an hour or so away is probably the best option when compared to some other language teaching organisations/schools/evening classes, which likely only teach half baked beginner's courses for the most part.

Most language schools' staff doesn't have experience with DELF/DALF, therefore I'd consider their opinion to be of limited value. Testing centers: AFs + some other language schools allowed to organize the exams, where no AF is available.

PeterMollenburg wrote:I certainly need to get my reading powering ahead and my SC numbers to improve.

Tarvos' advice is great. Go for the speed, do some extensive activities. You can return to the intensive ones later, if you wish to, and see you'll need to look up much less stuff than before. But extensive reading works well.
One more point concerning the reading speed. It looks like an unimportant "subskill". But reading quickly and still correctly may save you quite a lot of time during the exam.

Cavesa wrote:What I struggled with (briefly, as I had described it before):
-time. Both the absolute amount and my organisation. Give yourself the time to reread your tasks.

With relation to time in an exam itself, I've always been slow in exam situations but thorough (at school, university for ex.), and if confident with my knowledge I would definitely review my answers with scrutiny as I had the time having not struggled with answers to questions I didn't fully grasp initially. Thus, in theory, I need to be very well prepared and feel like I'm on top of my French in order to go through the responses efficiently enough to take the extra time where needed.

I think I expressed myself imprecisely. At this point, compared to the other one about time, I was not talking about the exam situation at all. My problem was having so much on my plate that I simply underestimated the importance of rereading my writing assignments a day or two later. That makes a difference. Before practicing to write on time and well immediately, it is good to really work on a few assignments for much longer, to catch your own mistakes (it is stupid to have a tutor tell you a mistake you can see clearly now too, a minute before he notices it, but didn't catch before because you haven't reread the thing with fresh eyes.)

I'd say the ideal schedule would be Day 1 write the thing. Day 2 reread it and make changes Day 4 or 5:reread it, make changes, eventually give it to tutor, if you've got one. Actually, most mistakes of mine would have been corrected during my rereadings, had I made time for them.

PeterMolleburg wrote:Yeah, when I did my B1 I didn't do any preparation for a couple of reasons. First it's a relatively easy level, so one could argue that not much preparation is needed, and secondly I wanted to really do it with no preparation to get a true value of my level as silly as that might sound. I think I thought I'd be "cheating" or "faking a higher level" as you describe some people calling it. I did not realise that there were such massive gaps between the CEFR levels at that time. Now I do, and I understand what you mean when you say you can't just fake those higher levels. Still I think remnants of this sentiment were still hanging around the other day when I made comments about shortcuts to exams. Anyway, for B2 and beyond, I certainly believe the more preparation the better and intend on working through exam preparation material.

I see your point. Yes, B1 is still quite an easy level. About the true value: You are right as long as we are talking about the idea of testing and not the reality. Were I a milionaire with unlimited amount of time to pass the test, I could sit it without opening preparation books too, and feel good about being tested truthfully. I am not. Some 150 euros are actually quite a lot of money for me. And the exam is being organized just twice per year. I need my fr+es+de language certificates ready in June 2018.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby sillygoose1 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:57 pm

PeterMollenburg wrote:
sillygoose1 wrote:I'm going to go against the grain a bit here. I don't think a C1 or a C2 takes as long as some people make it out to. Then again, I've had some different circumstances. I've stuck to French for three years before I started another language, about six years total now; I'm a young guy with no real responsibilities yet; and I continue to only focus on French a lot.

I could have achieved a higher level earlier. How? By not being afraid of failure early on and just diving right into it. One reason why it took me so long was because if I couldn't understand a dialogue in a show, I'd get frustrated and leave French for a few weeks. I babied myself way too much and didn't want to leave my comfort zone. I was scared that I was wasting time listening to material that I couldn't even understand. One day, I said the hell with this and just decided to marathon a few series because I wanted to see them and there were no subs available in English. After about 50 episodes, everything was clear to me. I caught on and did the same with novels. 500 pages didn't scare me anymore and I learned a lot of vocab. Then I just started to get bored and watch movies. Now I can understand like 90-95% of what I watch in French from shows like Engrenages and Braquo to standup comedy to movies. The marathon of movies, books, and series took me about 6 months. But as I said, I was out of school and work for medical reasons and had literally nothing else to do. I probably reached a higher level in less than 6 months but I didn't notice because it was fun.

Basically, you need to stop "studying." It's time to bust out of your shell and get into it. Pick up some classic literature, watch an easy sitcom then progress onto harder material. I'd recommend H and Nos chers voisins.


Hey sillygoose1,

A couple of questions. When you did you marathon of a few series, did you ever stop and study it intensively like iguanamon did (pausing, making time stamps and the like, analysing vocab etc)? Or did you simply just keep watching episode after episode one after the other without stopping? Did you re-watch episodes? I'm curious about your techniques. At what level do you think you were when you started this marathon?

And the same for your reading. If you followed the same techniques as your watching, did you not look up any words?



No I didn't get busy with all of that. The most I would do is rewind a scene a three times max if I didn't understand it, but then I would just skip it if I still couldn't get it after three times. I simply went episode after episode - without rewatching any. I know that there are language learners who like to get fancy with all of these techniques and flashcards and stuff like that. The only resource I use is Wordreference to look up unknown words that I hear (I have it bookmarked and always open :D)

I was probably around a B2. Initially I started with Un gars une fille + Camera Cafe + Kaamelott because there are a hell of a lot of episodes for those. The first was just perfect for my level, the other two way more advanced. I powered through them regardless. In order to reach a high level, you have to use materials that are just over your skill cap.

I was a bit more picky with my reading at first. When I had first finished my courses years ago, I found myself looking up every other word when I started reading a Harry Potter translation. Eventually, I started taking my time a bit more and relying on the words I knew and the context of the unknown word. I would only frequently look up words that I knew I've seen before but forgot or unknown words that popped up a lot because eventually I realized that not knowing a word or two doesn't hinder comprehension and I frequently thought back to all of the words I didn't know in English that I just glossed over. I did notice that the more I read, the better my listening comprehension got.

The brain is powerful and I fully trusted it to decode everything on its own, which it seems to have more or less done.


My bad if the wording seems odd. I just woke up and am only getting through my first cup of coffee.
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Re: Time from B2 to C1/C2? (frustrated somewhat- seeking some feedback pls)

Postby Elenia » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:23 pm

sillygoose1 wrote:Initially I started with Un gars une fille + Camera Cafe + Kaamelott because there are a hell of a lot of episodes for those.


These are all also 'bite sized' episodes (as far as I remember), so you can squeeze them in easily in gaps during other parts of your day, or use them as a palate cleanser between other activities. They are also easy to find online.

sillygoose1 wrote:I powered through them regardless. In order to reach a high level, you have to use materials that are just over your skill cap.

[...]

The brain is powerful and I fully trusted it to decode everything on its own, which it seems to have more or less done.


And if you don't want to leave it all of faith/you want to try the iguanamon method of listening/you really want to know what, exactly, King Arthur just said, there are accurate transcriptions available for both Caméra Café and Kaamelott ;)
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