How to get started with German?

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limey75
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby limey75 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:21 pm

Many thanks, Seneca and smallwhite (perhaps Great white would be a better name ;) for the very useful German news tips. I didn't know about those sites. My German tutor has tasked me with finding some German language vids to discuss and now I have some promising materials!
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aokoye
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby aokoye » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:40 pm

limey75 wrote:My German tutor has tasked me with finding some German language vids to discuss and now I have some promising materials!


In addition to Deutsche Welle a significantly more varried site that would probably be useful to you is zdf.de click on Mediathek. You're not going to get transcripts but it's all aimed at native speakers and most of their content isn't region restricted (also a lot of it has subtitles in German if you need them).
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aravinda
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby aravinda » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:02 am

iguanamon wrote:
Speakeasy wrote:
AlexTG wrote: ... For more advanced pronunciation help you could read "Modern German Pronunciation" by Christopher Hall.
Thank you very much! I searched the publisher's website and located the audio files that were recorded to accompany the textbook. While I can play them, I have not discovered how to download them. Would you happen to know how to proceed? Merci à l'avance!

LINK: http://www.manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9780719066894/

Speakeasy, to download the audio with the firefox browser, install the Flash Video Downloader for Mozilla Firefox. Play the audio. Click the arrow as the audio plays and you will be able to download this file as a 12.3 mb mp3 file. I just did.

I bought this book (2nd ed) and I'm somewhat disappointed that the audio files are only available for streaming on SoundCloud. I emailed the good professor as per his advice in the preface but haven't heard from him. I tried to download the audio files using the above-mentioned method but the Flash Video Downloader keeps saying "Nothing found". I'd appreciate any advice or assistance in getting these audio files. Thanks.
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Doitsujin
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby Doitsujin » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:41 am

aravinda wrote:I bought this book (2nd ed) and I'm somewhat disappointed that the audio files are only available for streaming on SoundCloud. [...] I'd appreciate any advice or assistance in getting these audio files. Thanks.
If you're a Firefox user, you could use the Mp3 Downloader for SoundCloud add-on to download the files. (It'll add a Prepare button that you'll need to click to download the files.)
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aravinda
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby aravinda » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:17 am

Doitsujin wrote:If you're a Firefox user, you could use the Mp3 Downloader for SoundCloud add-on to download the files. (It'll add a Prepare button that you'll need to click to download the files.)
Doitsujin, thank you so much, it worked like a charm!
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sedabugo
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby sedabugo » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 pm

Speakseasy, I-ve just started to see this post, and it's really good feedback!! Now, one BIG question for Everybody, If would have to choose between Assimil and Smartgerman, which one will you pick?
Thanks!!!

Speakeasy wrote:How to get started with German
First, and this is not meant as a criticism, I am not completely surprised by the apparent lack of enthusiasm for your question; many forum members have already contributed their advice on this topic through numerous and extensive discussion threads in the previous forum, the HTLAL. My own tardiness in replying reflects what-I-suspect-is a generalized weariness with the question. Second, when compared to many other languages, there are simply "too many good options" for the study of German as a second language. I have acquired a sizeable collection of introductory and intermediate materials sufficient to fill two large bookcases. Third, in retrospect, I should have concentrated on only a few of the materials listed below and then progressed to native materials (magazines, newspapers, novels, specialized textbooks, online newscasts, films, and the like) and private tutoring. Finally, in answer to your question, here is my own "short list" of courses for starting German:

Michel Thomas German
Michel Thomas German is a well-known and very highly-regarded "all audio" program of language instruction. I make mention of this program, not because I like it, but because someone else will most likely do so. At the beginner's level, the instructor, Michel Thomas, slowly guides two English-speaking students through the present tense and past tense conjugation of a small selection of high-frequency of verbs. Everything is recorded in this "mock classroom" method, including the students' errors. As you specifically mentioned "pronunciation", I would underscore that neither Michel Thomas nor his two British students were native-speakers of German. Supporters of the Michel Thomas Method often affirm that the (decidedly poor) pronunciation of German in this course is irrelevant in comparison to the method’s numerous positive aspects; I do not share their point of view. The level achieved would be A0-A1, depending on whether or not the student has the stamina to progress to the higher levels of this program.

Pimsleur German
Pimsleur German is a well-known and very highly-regarded "all audio" program of language instruction. During each of the 30-minute-long lessons, an English speaker guides the student through the "core vocabulary" of the German language, proposing new words, phrases and sentences and introducing carefully-timed prompts for the repetition of the material. The timing of the prompts and the use of the principle of “anticipation” are an integral part of the program and they have a remarkably positive effect on retention of the material. Two native speakers, one male, one female, provide the German portion of the audio tracks in a moderately comfortable cadence. Grammar is not addressed directly; rather, the student must infer the structure of the language from the examples just as one might do in an total immersion environment. For this reason, I would suggest that one accompany the course with a simple grammar and a dictionary. I have completed all five phases of the Pimsleur German program and I would estimate that, in terms of grammatical construction, a level of A2 is achieved; however, in terms of vocabulary, the program lags well behind many other methods including all those listed below. I have come to the conclusion that, given the availability of so many other materials for the study of German, the maximum value of the Pimsleur method -- in terms of the profitable use of one's study time -- is achieved during the study of Levels 1 and 2, beyond which I would not recommend continuing with this program.

DLI German Gateway
Updated March, 2017: In the late 1970's, the Defense Language Institute (DLI) published a two-part introduction to the German language for members of the U.S. Armed Forces and their families. Both courses were designed for self-study, contain a large quantity of audio recordings and exercise materials, and are freely available via the FSI-Yojik website. Quite frankly, I would skip the first course in the series, DLI German Headstart, work with either Michel Thomas German or Pimsleur German I-II, and then follow-up with the second course in the series, DLI German Gateway which should take the leaner to "just short of" CEFR level A1. For additional information, please refer to the discussion thread "DLI German Gateway (continuation of DLI German Headstart)": http://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5584

Assimil German
Assimil German is a well-known and very highly-regarded program of language instruction based on the presentation and practice of 100 short dialogues and exercise sets. Unlike many competing language methods, the dialogues possess no over-arching central theme which might otherwise assist the student visualize himself interacting with native speakers in predictable situations. This should not be taken as a weakness of the program as it mimics the manner by which we learn our own languages in real-life settings; that is, by participating in multiple, disjointed conversations. The recorded voices are those of native-speakers of German; however, the cadence is deliberately slower than that of normal conversational speech. Exposure to German TV, Radio, Podcasts, and the like will help the student acclimatize his listening skills to the more rapid speech of native speakers. The only "bémol" that I would underscore relates to the accompanying notes. While excellent and informative in themselves, I am left with the impression that they were written for people who "already" have a knowledge of German grammar. For this reason, I would suggest that one accompany this course with a simple grammar. Despite the publisher's assertion that this course would take the student to the B2 level, my impression is that a level of A2-B1 is more realistic. A more advanced, "second level" Assimil German course is available in French and in a few other languages, but is not available in English.

Linguaphone German
Linguaphone German is a well-known and very highly-regarded program of language instruction based on the presentation and practice of 30 rather lengthy dialogues and exercise sets. The student follows the Kühn family through their lengthy vacation in Germany. The vocabulary is introduced through standard, predictable situations. The recorded voices are those of native-speakers of German. While the cadence is faster than that of the Assimil course, it never achieves that of rapid-fire conversational speech. A translation of the German dialogues is not provided and, in its place, the student is provided with extensive notes. I find that the notes have a similar effect of those accompanying the Assimil courses; that is, while excellent and informative in themselves, I am left with the impression that they were written for people who "already" have a knowledge of German grammar. For this reason, I would suggest that one accompany the course with a simple grammar. I estimate that the level achieved would be in the A2-B1 range upon completion. Linguaphone publishes an "advanced" German course for which the materials are presented entirely in German.

Living Language "Ultimate" German
Although Random House ceased publication of this series circa 2012, copies of this courses can still be found on the Internet. For a short period, the dwindling stocks were offered a prices exceeding 2000 $US. Recently, most likely in response to a lack of buyers at these prices, they have declined to something approaching 400 $US per copy, which is still four times higher than the original prices. The method is based on the presentation and practice of 40 dialogues meant to represent predictable situations that a visitor to Germany would likely encounter. The recordings are those of native-speakers of German and the cadence approaches that of conversational speech. The concise explanations of grammar are a model of clarity. I estimate that the level achieved would be in the A2-B1 range upon completion. Living Language publishes an "advanced" German course. My only reservation with the “Ultimate” series relates to the limited nature of the exercise sets and, for this reason, I would suggest that the student study this course in combination with another one, such as Assimil German.

Deutsche Welle
There are so many online German language-learning programs available that it would take far too much of my time to filter them with a view to providing a short list. Nonetheless, one bears mentioning. The Deutsche Welle website offers high-quality, free-to-the-public courses from the A1 through the C1 levels. If you’re not keen on using online courses, you can always use other materials to achieve an A1 or higher level and then test your knowledge, or otherwise practice your skills, on this website.

FSI German Basic / DLI German Basic
I do not wish to initiate yet another seemingly unresolvable debate on the usefulness of the FSI and DLI courses. However, in my opinion, a failure to mention these materials would be an unpardonable oversight. In the period from the 1960’s through the late 1970’s, the U.S. government produced a series of language courses for the instruction of their diplomatic or military personnel. The basic materials are now in the public domain and are freely available to the public. While there are several courses in the collection, I would draw your attention to the FSI and DLI German Basic courses only as these are the more complete versions. Generally speaking, despite their age and the inclusion of some less-than-current vocabulary, these courses are still very highly-regarded. The mp3 audio files presently available were digitized from audio cassettes that did not age very well, thereby yielding a sound quality that does not meet commercial standards; however, for many people, this fact does not detract from the usefulness of the materials. In all cases, the audio recordings are those of native speakers of German and, upon listening to the speakers, it becomes readily apparent that they are not voice-trained professionals. For the FSI German Basic course, the delivery of the dialogues and exercises is almost shockingly rapid when compared to that of commercially-prepared audio tracks. This is not at all the case for the DLI German Basic course where the dialogues and exercises are delivered at an artificially slower cadence, reminiscent of the Linguaphone German recordings. It should be noted that the FSI and DLI basic courses were designed for classroom use. In the case of the FSI Basic German course, the accompanying notes can seem somewhat sparse and, for this reason, I would suggest that one accompany this course with a simple grammar. In contrast, the notes accompanying the DLI German Basic course are complete in every respect, much more so than any commercially-prepared course that I have ever encountered. In addition, the DLI materials include a separate series of some 43 short guides each of which addresses a single issue of German grammar. While both courses were conceived when the “audio-lingual” method enjoyed support in American academic circles, there are significant differences in the texts and exercise materials. Both courses introduce the language through the presentation of a series of situational dialogues, twenty-four in the FSI course and ninety in the DLI course. In addition to the dialogues, the DLI course includes third-person narratives based on the lessons’ dialogues. The courses differ remarkably as to the recorded exercise sets that support the dialogues. The FSI course includes a wide variety of sentence-pattern drills (substitution, replacement, transformation, variation, etcetera) designed to reinforce the grammatical structures and the vocabulary of the individual lessons. I will be quite frank here: I found the first two units of the FSI German Basic course so horribly boring that I almost abandoned the program. However, I persevered and discovered that, as of the third unit right through to the end of the course, the authors of the sentence-pattern drills displayed much more creativity, so much so that I came to enjoy working with the exercise sets. In contrast, the recorded sentence-pattern drills of the DLI German Basic course were designed to illustrate solely the specific grammatical structures deployed in the individual lessons, using the absolute minimum of common vocabulary that was introduced in the initial lesson units. While this approach does, indeed, isolate the grammatical issues from issues of newly-presented vocabulary, the resulting sentence-pattern drills lacked the "je ne sais quoi" to maintain my interest. That is, they were so tedious, dull, repetitive, unimaginative, lifeless, insipid, uninspiring, and unrelievedly boring that I found it difficult to repeat them, thereby defeating their inclusion in a supposedly audio-lingual program. Nonetheless, the sentence-pattern drills aside, the DLI German Basic course is “worth the detour”, particularly once gets beyond the first 30 lesson units. Having said that, I still prefer the FSI German Basic course, most particularly for the drills.

Glossika Mass Sentence Drills
If you enjoy practicing sentence-pattern drills and if you are willing to exchange the tedium of lifeless sentences for the chance of increasing the fluidity of your spoken delivery, you might wish to consider the Glossika Mass Sentence Drills. Note carefully that the Glossika Mass Sentences do not represent a course of study. Rather, they are comprised of some 3,000 artificially-constructed sentences the massive repetition of which is designed to assist the student with his spoken fluency. The only supporting materials are a bilingual transcript. Issues of grammar are not discussed and it is assumed that the user has already achieved a level of proficiency approaching that of CEFR A2.

Other Study Materials
There are simply too many to mention. My advice would be to select something from the above list, practice it thoroughly, and then progress to native materials (magazines, newspapers, novels, specialized textbooks, online newscasts, films, and the like) and private tutoring.

EDITED:
Formatting
Expansion of the text referring to Glossika
Typos, wie immer.
Updated March, 2017 to make mention of the DLI German Gateway course
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Speakeasy
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby Speakeasy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:00 pm

sedabugo wrote:Speakseasy, I-ve just started to see this post, and it's really good feedback!! Now, one BIG question for Everybody, If would have to choose between Assimil and Smartgerman, which one will you pick? Thanks!!!

Welcome!
First, welcome to the forum, sedabugo! I look forward to following your participation in many of the fascinating discussions on the forum.

German group
Second, I would draw your attention to the "German group" which you can find under the "Study Groups" sub-section of the forum. While the group was formed almost three years ago and although there are, at this writing, slightly over 400 posts, I invite you to take the time to read through much of what has already been posted. There's no need to rush, just take your time and eat this elephant one bite at a time.

This Course versus That Course
For frequently-studied languages such as German, there are simply "too many good options" for anyone wishing to learn this language. My collection of German materials now extends over three floor-to-ceiling bookcases (OCD, how you possess me!). In my opinion, all of the materials in my collection are quite good and they all have the potential for taking a self-motivated student into the intermediate level with some of them having the potential to take student even further. On only the rarest of occasions have I ever come across materials which I would characterise as being sub-standard. However, even these have their supporters. So then, from my perspective, there comes a point when comparisons of "this course" versus "that course" become a sterile exercise. The "short list" that I provided above was nothing more than a starting point. I, or anyone else who as studied German, could have added a hundred more recommendations to the above list and the discussion could have dragged on endlessly; however, nothing substantial would have changed.

Assimil versus SmarterGerman
In conclusion, as you have posted this same question under the "SmarterGerman" thread, which I assume you have read, it should come as no surprise to you that my own preference would be: (1) Pimsleur I and II, then (2) Assimil, followed by (3) FSI Basic, and then (4) a mixture of genuine intermediate-level textbooks and readers plus resources (books, films, TV, videos, whatever) for native-speakers. Please note that Assimil and FSI could be done in tandem. In my opinion, the materials in SmarterGerman are worth about 20 $US, if not a tad less. Meiner Meinung nach*, the sole benefit of SmarterGerman is the distant-learning hand-holding that the creator offers prospective students. I would not characterize SmarterGerman as being sub-standard; however, it does not appear on the list that I submitted above.

*Meiner Meinung nach = In my opinion (Vielen Dank, Pimsleur!)

EDITED:
Typos, even more than usual!
Tinkering, as usual.
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sedabugo
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby sedabugo » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:08 pm

Thank you again!! According to past post and your kind comments, I'll go for Assimil and after SG. I'll let know how was it!
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Biofacticity
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Re: How to get started with German?

Postby Biofacticity » Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:24 am

Speakeasy wrote:
sedabugo wrote:Speakseasy, I-ve just started to see this post, and it's really good feedback!! Now, one BIG question for Everybody, If would have to choose between Assimil and Smartgerman, which one will you pick? Thanks!!!

Welcome!

Assimil versus SmarterGerman
In conclusion, as you have posted this same question under the "SmarterGerman" thread, which I assume you have read, it should come as no surprise to you that my own preference would be: (1) Pimsleur I and II, then (2) Assimil, followed by (3) FSI Basic, and then (4) a mixture of genuine intermediate-level textbooks and readers plus resources (books, films, TV, videos, whatever) for native-speakers. Please note that Assimil and FSI could be done in tandem. In my opinion, the materials in SmarterGerman are worth about 20 $US, if not a tad less. Meiner Meinung nach*, the sole benefit of SmarterGerman is the distant-learning hand-holding that the creator offers prospective students. I would not characterize SmarterGerman as being sub-standard; however, it does not appear on the list that I submitted above.

*Meiner Meinung nach = In my opinion (Vielen Dank, Pimsleur!)

EDITED:
Typos, even more than usual!
Tinkering, as usual.


Hey speakeasy, I hope you see this thread, I want to know your opinion.

I recently moved to Germany, and I want to learn the language but without tutors or attending classes. So a self study course is what I am looking for. I know there are dozens of courses online for learning German but I feel overwhelmed by the choice. I want to know what you think is the best/fastest way for a complete beginner to advance to B1 or B2.

I was searching online and found some websites that rank courses and Rocket German, German Uncovered, Smarter German are consistently among the top mentioned. Unfortunately all of those are paid courses and expensive, and I don't know if they are that much more worth than other courses.

The most commonly mentioned ones like Assimil - when I went on amazon to read reviews - one guy said its decent, and the only negative he said is that he didn't switch to Baron's German (FSI) sooner.

Some say FSI is outdated and lacks grammar, Pimsleur also lacks grammar, Thomas etc...

Some recommend Goethe's Institute course etc.

I know one course is not enough, but what I want is someone experienced like you to help me decide which steps and which direction should I go to best achieve results
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