Extensive LRing - variations on the tried and true?

[DaveBee]

Ivan Kupka's presentation at the Polyglot Gathering described a variation of this he called "sandwich reading".

1. Read chapter in L1
2. Listen and read the chapter in L2
3. repeat.

14m24s into the video: Way of the Peaceful Bookworm

[Xmmm]

I find, as a practical matter, in some languages it can be hard to get all the materials needed.

For example, Italian doesn't seem to have major 19th century classics that are thousands of pages long. I tried Salgari because the books looked long and I could find audio for it, but it turned out the audio was majorly abridged. So that was a bust. My best Italian resource is Il deserto dei tartari but that's only 13 hours long. I did do L2/R2 there. In other words I did L-R wrong.

In Russian, I have a stack of audio books by the same author ... but unfortunately the books were originally in English. So L2/R1 is possible, but L2/R2 is not. I did L2/R1 on two books there. I didn't see a huge boost in comprehension when I jumped into a 3rd book cold, though.

I have Solzhenitsyn's Red Wheel on audiobook and it seems unabridged (at least it's very long). I can easily get the English text on Amazon. But I'd have to go looking for Russian text. Without it, I'd be back to L2/R1 only.

I like the method in principle but the resource hunt is sometimes frustrating. I'm wondering if I should learn how to use the AWS Polly service and just feed my L2 text into that and get mp3s with new improved robo-voices. This would take "find the audio book unabridged" out of the equation. I haven't listened to the Italian or Russian voices yet, but the standard English ones are considerably better than past robo-voices.

Edit: Sabatini->Salgari. I have Captain Blood on the brain ...

[rdearman]

For example, Italian doesn't seem to have major 19th century classics that are thousands of pages long. I tried Sabatini because the books looked long and I could find audio for it, but it turned out the audio was majorly abridged. So that was a bust. My best Italian resource is Il deserto dei tartari but that's only 13 hours long. I did do L2/R2 there. In other words I did L-R wrong.

Treasure Island is 10 hours long. Someone recorded a lot of classics in Italian on soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-184085688/albums

[reineke]

I find, as a practical matter, in some languages it can be hard to get all the materials needed.

For example, Italian doesn't seem to have major 19th century classics that are thousands of pages long. I tried Sabatini because the books looked long and I could find audio for it, but it turned out the audio was majorly abridged. So that was a bust. My best Italian resource is Il deserto dei tartari but that's only 13 hours long. I did do L2/R2 there. In other words I did L-R wrong.

In Russian, I have a stack of audio books by the same author ... but unfortunately the books were originally in English. So L2/R1 is possible, but L2/R2 is not. I did L2/R1 on two books there. I didn't see a huge boost in comprehension when I jumped into a 3rd book cold, though.

I have Solzhenitsyn's Red Wheel on audiobook and it seems unabridged (at least it's very long). I can easily get the English text on Amazon. But I'd have to go looking for Russian text. Without it, I'd be back to L2/R1 only.

I like the method in principle but the resource hunt is sometimes frustrating. I'm wondering if I should learn how to use the AWS Polly service and just feed my L2 text into that and get mp3s with new improved robo-voices. This would take "find the audio book unabridged" out of the equation. I haven't listened to the Italian or Russian voices yet, but the standard English ones are considerably better than past robo-voices.

Only a handful (armful?) of novels are thousands of pages long in paperback format.

Война и мир (War and Peace) Leo Tolstoy Oxford World's Classics 1,440 pages, paperback 587,287 words
Atlas Shrugged 1,088 pages, paperback 645,000 words
Il mulino del Po Riccardo Bacchelli (20th ct) 2,113 pages, paperback 560,000 words.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_novels

The author of the L/R manual suggests starting with something like The Little Prince and then doing something longer to pick up the author 's idiolect.

There's madness in your method, Xmmm.

"Red Wheel is a cycle of novels by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, retelling and exploring the passing of Imperial Russia and the birth-pangs of the Soviet Uniion".

5000 pages.

Reading experts usually recommend book series for young readers like Anne of Green Gables etc.

You'll find penty of "cycles" of Italian novels if that's your thing but you can also simply read several books by the same author or a couple of longer novels.

La Storia
di Elsa Morante
(1974)
letto da Iaia Forte
Regia Flavia Gentili
Durata 28h 57m
Versione integrale
Pubblicazione 26 ottobre 2017
ISBN 9788869862434
The book is around 665 pages long.

[Xmmm]

Treasure Island is 10 hours long. Someone recorded a lot of classics in Italian on soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-184085688/albums

I don't want to sidetrack into "Xmmm can't find resources for Italian." But I think it's fair to say that for some languages if you try to line up unabridged audio plus L2 plus L1 text, you're going to be left with stuff to read that isn't very appealing (and an AWE Rider you cannot be if the stuff you're reading bores you).

So I'm very tempted to try out AWS Polly, maybe on Salgari's books. I'll have to see which voice sounds better, "Carla" or "Giorgio". A couple weeks from now, at the earliest. But then, my Italian reading is already not bad. So maybe it should be "Maxim" or "Tatyana" reading Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District.

Solving the "where to get unabridged audio" is solving 90% of the problem.

[Bex]

Ivan Kupka's presentation at the Polyglot Gathering described a variation of this he called "sandwich reading".

1. Read chapter in L1
2. Listen and read the chapter in L2
3. repeat.

14m24s into the video: Way of the Peaceful Bookworm

Interesting...this is very close to what I started doing yesterday with Harry Potter 3. I only chose HP because I have all the books in L2 & L1 and all the audiobooks in L2.

My method is as follows:
1. Read chapter in L1 (plus listen in L2)
2. Listen and read the chapter in L2

I was previuosly just reading the plot summary and then just L/R in L2 but I wasn't picking up any new vocabulary, so I added in step 1 yesterday.

I am not a complete beginner and I can follow the plot (just about) whilst L/R in only L2.

There are no further steps because I am not sure I could stand reading the same chapter for a 3rd time.

I am also not an AWE rider ( ) so I am just working through one chapter a day.

My aim is to be able to read without step 1 because at the moment I am unable to read extensivly; my reading ability is not good (or do I mean practiced) enough.

I have noticed after just 1 chapter, that at my level (high beginner/low intermediate), the difference step 1 makes is huge, I am picking up vocabulary all over the place and new words (even whole sentences) are jumping out a me. I am not just following the plot anymore... I'm getting lots of details.

I know I am not a seasoned learner like the rest of you but I thought I'd add my experience here anyway...I hope it's of some use to someone

[rdearman]

AWE RIder is a reference to someone on the old HTLAL forum. You can look at the old posts there is a link in the first post of this thread: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =14&t=7822

[reineke]

"L-R is meant for hard-core learners – Awe Riders."

"I love stories, so I want to understand them as quickly as possible.
I use the same books I love to learn a new language. Audiobooks, the text in L2 plus translation, a good reference grammar (and sometimes a dictionary when the translation is not clear), that's all I need.

I use The Little Prince, Camus, Kafka, Anna Karenina, The Master and Margarita by Bulgakov, The Old Man and the Sea, Andersen's fairy tales, Lewis Carroll, A.A. Milne."

I never get tired of them. I can start listening and/or reading any of the books and I'm always in awe: the mystery of the human soul right before your eyes, and you can constantly smile at it, or – sometimes – cry, but it's happiness, nonetheless.

And this AWE-state is the most important factor – the beauty of it is breathtaking, you never get tired of it, you always want more and you're happy. ..."