Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

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NoManches
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Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby NoManches » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:01 am

Hi fellow languages learners. This is my first post here and I look forward to any advice I can get.

I have been learning Spanish for about 3-4 years (if you count the first year where I didn't want to learn the language but was forced to take it in college lol). I am somewhat advanced now although I do have my off days and could definitely improve a bunch of different things in the language.

One of the things I NEED to work on is listening comprehension. I can have a conversation 1 on 1 but if there are multiple people or if I am watching a tv show/movie I miss out on a ton of things.

I REALLY want to be able to watch a tv show/movie in Spanish and understand just about everything that is going on, but I don't know how to go about doing this. I know my language skills will go through the roof once I can sit down and watch tv in Spanish and just learn through context.

I'm thinking about sticking with TV shows (instead of movies) so I can get used to the words used/accents/characters, etc. In the past I watched all 71 episodes of Metastasis (with subtitles in Spanish). After, I watched another 60+ episodes of a show from Mexico called "el Mariachi". Of that show about half was with subtitles, and then for the second half I ditched the subtitles because I was spending too much time reading and not enough time listening.

I'm now watching "Club de Cuervos" on netflix. I've watched a few episodes with subtitles adding every new word to anki. I've watched another episode with no subtitles, and another episode only using subtitles when I really need them.

I'm really not sure what else I can do. I'm at the point where it feels like a waste of time when I just breeze through really cool shows and only understand 70% of what is going on. I guess I could keep doing this but it seems very inefficient and not giving myself comprehensible input.

Any suggestions, words of advice, tips, personal stories that can motivate me (lol), etc. ??


Thanks in advance. Looking forward to some good advice.
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby Serpent » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:40 am

How good is your reading? Do you feel like you are missing some words that you'd understand in writing?
How much do you understand with subtitles?
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby rdearman » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:26 am

If you want to learn to listen, you have to listen. Practice makes perfect and all that. My advice, which I'm taking myself is to do the following:
  1. Watch TV shows not movies.
  2. Watch once with sub-titles if you have them.
  3. Watch without sub-titles, BUT,
  4. Watch each episode until you know what they are saying. If this means you have to constantly pause and repeat, and then repeat the entire show 20 times so be it ...
  5. Watch the entire series.

Of course you'll be sick to death of the entire series, but it forces you to listen to each word, sentence, conversation and understand it. I've only done this for one episode of one series of a cartoon. Short 30 minutes, but I believe it is going to help me tremendously with comprehension.

Also you should signup for the Super Challenge in May, to read 100 books & watch 100 films, that will help a lot too.
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby iguanamon » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:10 pm

You can take this advice for what it's worth. When I had my big breakthrough with listening to TV shows in Portuguese, it came with working intensively with a 45-50 minute novela and my private tutor. She had seen and liked the novela and recommended that we work on it together in our sessions. There were no subtitles or closed captions available. Had there, been, I believe I could have used them to substitute, to a large extent, for a tutor.

Here's what I did. At first, I would simply watch and listen to the episode. My tutor wanted me to write down unknown words. I would watch again and take notes including time-stamps in the video where I noticed the speech so she could find it. Something like 11:30:45- "Eu acho que você precisa de ____ ____" to 11:30:47. I would end up with a few pages of stuff like this. In the beginning of a series, it takes time to get used to the actors' voices and accents. Then, in our skype session, we would go over these and she would fill in the blanks for me. Before the next session I would watch it again with my new notes and listen in order to write a synopsis of what was going on in each scene. I took notes as I did this. Sometimes I would have to pause and re-watch certain bits. Often, I would watch the video again and add more notes. Then, I would write my review from my notes (I had developed my own shorthand) so I could read it coherently and I would go over it with my tutor in our skype session, speaking. She would ask me questions to gauge my understanding and this also helped me with speaking, of course.

Over the 80 or so episodes, the first quarter were the hardest. The second quarter started getting better. By the third quarter I was doing two episodes in a week . My unknown words had dropped dramatically and I just included them in the first few minutes of our session. At the last quarter, I was up to reviewing three episodes in twice weekly skype sessions.
rdearman wrote:...Of course you'll be sick to death of the entire series, but it forces you to listen to each word, sentence, conversation and understand it. I've only done this for one episode of one series of a cartoon. Short 30 minutes, but I believe it is going to help me tremendously with comprehension. ...

I have posted this before and I usually get the virtual equivalent of a blank stare. Some people can't see the point of doing this much work or, don't want to do this much work. Some are studying many languages at the same time and simply can't devote this much time and effort to one language. Yes, as rdearman says, it's work- no doubt about it- but this is what got me "over the hump" in listening to Portuguese.

The other issue is with hiring a tutor. Here's how I would do this without hiring a tutor. I would find a series, preferably dubbed, or an original series but it would have to have accurate subtitles. I would go to opensubtitles.org and download the srt file. You can open this and read it in notepad on a windows machine. I would then go through the process as I described letting the subtitle transcript be your check against comprehension- as a substitute for a tutor. I would search the web for a review/synopsis of the episode. Some popular series even have their own forums dedicated to them. Novelas have many sites with chapter reviews/synopsis. If you are feeling really ambitious, you could write your own capsule review on lang8 for correction.

With an accurate transcript, there are many ways it can be used- read first then listen. listen first then read, read and listen (subtitles). With the srt file you can even make your own parallel text with the English version.

Have a look at my post Understanding spoken Latin American Spanish
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby Serpent » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:25 pm

that sounds like overkill to me, tbh. but GLOSS is great for intensive listening. Also music, including lyricstraining.
You might also find audiobooks helpful.
About comprehensible input - 70% is very much that, at least in a language like Spanish (for an English speaker). Don't obsess with individual words, focus on sentences and entire scenes. Even if you can understand the content through visual clues, L1 subs or by asking someone, you're still learning. (although it might be better to listen again when you already know the content, but not what exactly the characters say)

And if you don't know some common everyday objects, I recommend the game Criminal Case :)
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby iguanamon » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:49 pm

Serpent wrote:...that sounds like overkill to me, tbh

I freely admit that. That's what most people think and will think, but it worked. At the time, I was only learning Portuguese, so I could do this. It was what got me from "seeing through a glass darkly" to being able to listen and understand practically anything in Portuguese. What I did is not for everyone, but it sure made a difference for me. Sometimes, learning a language means making an effort. Having to focus and really pay attention was something I needed.

DLI GLOSS (and lyrics training too) is vastly under-utilized as a resource here on the forum. Audiobooks are good resources, but they only get you used to one voice and there are generally no visual clues. Comprehensible input is, indeed, key. The good thing about a series with accurate subtitles in TL and L1 is that it can be made to be comprehensible, easily.
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby rdearman » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:08 pm

Serpent wrote:About comprehensible input - 70% is very much that, at least in a language like Spanish (for an English speaker). Don't obsess with individual words, focus on sentences and entire scenes. Even if you can understand the content through visual clues, L1 subs or by asking someone, you're still learning. (although it might be better to listen again when you already know the content, but not what exactly the characters say)


Yes but the OP seems to be saying they are already listening and watching films and "getting the gist" of them. the 70%.

NoManches wrote:I'm really not sure what else I can do. I'm at the point where it feels like a waste of time when I just breeze through really cool shows and only understand 70% of what is going on. I guess I could keep doing this but it seems very inefficient and not giving myself comprehensible input.


I feel much the same as the OP. I can get the gist of what is going on, but it isn't the same as knowing what is going on. I don't want to be guessing 30-40% of what is happening, I want to be understanding 100% of what is happening. I even want to understand the jokes. The only method I could think of was to keep repeating it until I understand.

On the old HTLAL someone recommended I take an excerpt of only 60 seconds of dialogue, and transcribe it. It was really really really hard, and I failed miserably when I had it checked by a native speaker. Although I got 70% of the dialogue, the parts I didn't understand were probably the most important to the plot.
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby Iversen » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:38 pm

I think that documentaries and news broadcasts are much better as listening material than fictional films because they generally are spoken quite clearly and by a few voices which go on and on booming for several minutes so that you have time to adapt to the particularities of each speaker. I remember discussions at HTLAL (maybe also here) where somebody suggests that you should train your abilities to listen and understand by deliberately choosing sources with bad sound quality, but this is silly. You can whet your language understanding apparatus on such sources once you can understand the clear and simple ones on the fly.

Another point is that you need several things to understand a language on the fly: mastery of the central vocabulary and the core grammar, but also a fairly large passive vocabulary. Until these obstacles have been conquered you may have to accept that you don't understand much, and the solution is not frantically to try to understand. Accept that there is a problem and start listening for the words and phrases you do understand, and with time those fragments will cover more and more of the speech until you have a situation where most of it 'sticks together' with just a few holes here and there.
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby NoManches » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:15 pm

How good is your reading? Do you feel like you are missing some words that you'd understand in writing?
How much do you understand with subtitles?


My reading is good, not perfect, but much better than my listening skills. When I watch a show or movie with subtitles I would say that I easily understand 90-95% of everything. Sometimes I might have to look up a word or think about why a certain verb conjugation was used. I really feel like the problem is with my listening skills, which have improved a lot in the last few months but not to the point that I can watch a tv show.

Also you should signup for the Super Challenge in May, to read 100 books & watch 100 films, that will help a lot too.


I will definitely sign up for this challenge! This is the exact type of thing I need to really push myself and advance to the next level.

You can take this advice for what it's worth. When I had my big breakthrough with listening to TV shows in Portuguese, it came with working intensively with a 45-50 minute novela and my private tutor. She had seen and liked the novela and recommended that we work on it together in our sessions. There were no subtitles or closed captions available. Had there, been, I believe I could have used them to substitute, to a large extent, for a tutor.


I read through everything you wrote and think that this might be the best way for me to improve. I just need to take a tv series, and intensively watch it until I start to understand everything.

-This is the first time I've ever heard of GLOSS. Thanks a ton for sharing this valuable link with me. It seems like something I can do daily to really push myself to new levels.

I will follow the advice everyone has given me and report back when I can. One problem I have is that I understand enough of the tv show where I really enjoy it and want to know what is going on. Watching and understanding 70% is so annoying because I'm constantly saying to myself "Wait...what just happened?!"
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Re: Watching (and understanding) movies/tv shows

Postby Serpent » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:06 pm

Jokes often require cultural knowledge.
TV is generally redundant, so that natives could fill in the gaps as needed.
My main point is that it does take work, but it doesn't have to be painful and make you hate the series and yourself and the world. When you can already understand 95%, the rest will probably take a lot of work and barely add anything, so it's only worth doing with a show you love a lot.

Some audiobooks have multiple voices, even in Polish. They should help with getting your listening to the level of your reading.

Oh and if you have the technical skills you can find subs2srs and substudy useful :) Several people should be able to help if needed.

Here's that thread on deliberately suboptimal audio. It's not for everyone but I definitely don't think it's a silly idea.
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