How to learn french?

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Ug_Caveman
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby Ug_Caveman » Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:38 pm

Cainntear wrote:Something I recommend only to native English speakers (and say here because your profile says you're a native speaker) is to start with the Michel Thomas courses (Foundation and Advanced -- I'm not a fan of the Vocabulary course. The Builder/Masterclass is probably worth doing too, though.)
It gives an extremely good coverage of the core grammar in a very short space of time. The biggest issue with it is that you'll find other stuff boring because the usual thing is to teach lots of words before grammar, but you'll just have to put up with spending more time than needed on introductions of things you already know.

Sorry for the hijack, but was wondering if anyone here had experience with the Michel Thomas French Insider's course that apparently goes above the Advanced course?
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby Cainntear » Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:33 am

Ug_Caveman wrote:Sorry for the hijack, but was wondering if anyone here had experience with the Michel Thomas French Insider's course that apparently goes above the Advanced course?

I thought you were telling me there was a new course, but then Googling brought me to this thread, where I'd commented on it.

Given that the thread was in 2016 and mentions the course being talked about on the old forums, I think it's pretty noteworthy that most of us forget it even exists.

One thing I note from the previous thread I'd that it was done by a different imprint of Hodder than the main MT line, and timing suggests it was a commercial attempt to do something along the lines of Coffee Break and LanguagePod101, but given that it's a fixed set of lessons on CD, I think they'd missed that the main point of podcasts was that continuous content = continuous income!

Given that they never wound it into the main MT product line and it's still obscure after a decade... I'm dubious. [Edit: turns out they are showing in the list on the MT website. However, that's a US thing, and it is still on a different imprint.]
Last edited by Cainntear on Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby Cainntear » Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:08 am

Ug_Caveman wrote:$ curl f t p ://my_brain/French_B2

If you're geeky enough to make a joke like that, you should be geeky enough to get the punchline through BBcode without it getting spotted and formatted as a URL...

$ curl ftp:/x/my_brain/French_B2

;)
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby cito » Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:04 pm

I think if you're in France it could be good to try and make some French friends. I remember meeting a lot of nice people going to a climbing gym. Perhaps if you went to a place where people who have similar interests you might be able to meet bilingual people who can help you out a bit.

As far as the language itself, I'd say everyone's advice was good, but I can give mine too, as I have learned French to around a B2 level, and I was around B1 after 6 months or so. Here's what I might suggest:

Memorize 20 (high, but since you're kinda in a rush) of the most common words from an ANKI deck of the 1000+ most common French words each day. Work through until you are at 1250 or so. 15 minutes per day

Put ASSIMIL's "French with ease" course into ANKI, you can get the lines of audio if you get the download or USB editions of the audio. I like to make ANKI cards of each sentence and work through 1+ lessons a day (depends how intensive they are), once you get to around lesson 50, you should just do 1, as it will become a lot of content. Make each ANKI card a sibling card (this is not what I would typically advise, but since you desire to learn in a small amount of time, I am suggesting an intensive schedule), so you see both FR>EN and EN>FR. 45-60 minutes a day.

Use Pimsleur, do 1-2 lessons per day. Average 1.5 per day, don't be afraid to repeat a lesson if you don't understand it. 60 minutes per day

Also, classes are not a bad idea, in fact, if you can take them, definitely do. Do not speak a lick of English in these classes, other people might, but you should only speak French, even if you barely can. 4 hours (or more) of class per day is not a bad idea, it could be very helpful if that's the type of learning that you enjoy.

Lastly, watch plenty of both easy videos in French, like on Youtube channels (InnerFrench, French Mornings with Elisa, Easy French), maybe for an hour or so a day, and then spend a lot of time watching / listening to difficult stuff. If you can spend at least an hour watching / listening to stuff you understand (I also highly suggest the Intermediate French podcast aka InnerFrench, available on Spotify and other platforms for free), and an 1+ hours watching / listening to stuff you already enjoy in other languages in French itself (like you favorite TV show or book dubbed/translated into French), then you'll have a great increase in your learning, and the lanugage will come more naturally to you. 2 hours

In total that leaves you with around 8+ hours of French learning, which its definitely possible could bring you to a strong level. It will be extremely difficult and take great discipline; but, you got this!
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby Granrey » Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:28 am

My first advice is to double check the reason for learning French.

Learning a language requires a strong investment of time and energy.

Time is your most valuable asset. Don't waste it.

2nd, notice the sooner you need to learn the less likely to enjoy the journey. Myself, I've been studying french about an hour per day for over a year using many tools (apps, books, videos, podcasts etc) . My level depending on the exam I take is b1/b2. The biggest challenge I find is comprehension.


Saying that, I don't think I study like people use to study back in the day. I have to enjoy the journey as I don't have a time-line that I have to meet. I think I will need 2 more years to have an acceptable comprehension.

3rd advice, be careful where to spend the money. There are lots of resources that can be used for free. There are others you have to pay. Don't pay for anything that can be found for free. It will help your budget.
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby Cainntear » Fri Mar 01, 2024 9:07 am

Granrey wrote:My first advice is to double check the reason for learning French.

Well, given that the OP is in France according to the first post, I would say their reasons must be pretty valid.... ;)

2nd, notice the sooner you need to learn the less likely the journey will be.

That's generally true, but quicker learning is possible, particularly when you're in-country and have to use the language every day.

3rd advice, be careful where to spend the money. There are lots of resources that can be used for free. There are others you have to pay. Don't pay for anything that can be found for free. It will help your budget.

The problem is that almost any resource "can be found for free" if you include pirate sites. I've given specific named resources, but I didn't specifically say where to buy. I understand that my advice really doesn't depend on where you pay for it or rip it off a torrent site.
But the truth is that stuff that is available legitimately for free is not usually produced by professionals, and if you're wanting to learn quickly, you need stuff that is the result of years of experience. (And I don't mean years of experience learning languages -- plenty of self-declared gurus are happy to believe that learning 10 languages means that they know that a teacher that has learned "only" 1 language but has taught their own language to hundreds of student... they don't.) That comes with a price tag, like it or not.
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby Leif » Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:59 pm

leoo wrote:Hi.
What would be the best way to learn french in the shortest time to B2. please recommend courses and any advice.
I have 6-7 hours per day to learn french and I am ready to learn intensively.
I live in France aswell.
Thank you in advance :D


In my opinion French is a relatively easy language for a native English speaker as we share so much vocabulary and the word order is rather similar. However, the pronunciation and comprehension of spoken language are tough.

My preferred route is to find some courses on YouTube that go through the basics, and import them into LingQ. Then you use LingQ to read the transcript of a video, and click on unknown words for the meanings. You then listen and read, and then just listen. Repeat for the next video. Each day revise previous lessons. You are using LingQ as a player for the videos which provides a transcript with the ability to quickly look up words. Alternatively just use YouTube and the automatic transcript, along with a French English dictionary.

When you come to bits of grammar that don’t make sense, use Google.

I did group evening classes with Alliance Française and L’Institut Français , this was back when the dinosaurs ruled the earth. I don’t recommend this approach. If you must do a course, Babbel will introduce the language and some of the grammar. I found Babbel better than Busuu for German, and as for Duolingo, please do not use it. A Babbel course will not teach you French, but it will tell you a bit about its structure.

And after a while you will be able to listen to French TV news, and other formal clear French and pick up words, and gradually learn that way. Podcasts for learners are good too, just slow clear French. Getting to hear spoken french is key in my opinion, and once there it snowballs. But hearing French while reading a transcript is important when possible, to train your ear.
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby leosmith » Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:12 pm

Cainntear wrote:Well, given that the OP is in France according to the first post,
and he is yet another one-hit-wonder :lol:
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby dubendorf » Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:25 am

I'm curious about the advice to sign up for an in-person course for someone hoping to learn on a short timeline. I guess it depends on the quality of the course/teacher and the motivation of your fellow students. My only experience with language courses was through middle school/high school, which taught me some, but seemed pretty slow since most people weren't fully engaged in the material. (By slow, I mean after 4-5 years, I was probably A1/A2). I might have the opportunity to take free or cheap(er) courses through work, but I feel like I might be able to make faster progress and use my time more efficiently through self-teaching. By which I mean, why sit through a 3 hour lecture twice a week when I could possibly learn faster and more fruitfully by going through a textbook on my own for 40 minutes a day? Does anyone have an opinions of one or both?
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Re: How to learn french?

Postby Severine » Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:08 am

dubendorf wrote:I'm curious about the advice to sign up for an in-person course for someone hoping to learn on a short timeline. I guess it depends on the quality of the course/teacher and the motivation of your fellow students. My only experience with language courses was through middle school/high school, which taught me some, but seemed pretty slow since most people weren't fully engaged in the material. (By slow, I mean after 4-5 years, I was probably A1/A2). I might have the opportunity to take free or cheap(er) courses through work, but I feel like I might be able to make faster progress and use my time more efficiently through self-teaching. By which I mean, why sit through a 3 hour lecture twice a week when I could possibly learn faster and more fruitfully by going through a textbook on my own for 40 minutes a day? Does anyone have an opinions of one or both?


I have two answers. The short versions are:
1. It really depends
2. Why not both?

The longer versions:
1. If you self-study efficiently and know how to learn, it can propel you forward very quickly. If you don't quite know what to do or struggle with organization, consistency, or focus, it can be very frustrating and unrewarding. Similarly, a good class can be a marvellous boost to your learning whereas a bad one is just a giant waste of time. The key is to make sure you get a good version of whichever approach you choose. Make sure you've designed an intelligent and realistic self-study plan, if you go that route; plenty of people here have outlined their approaches in threads on the forum, and I am sure you will get advice if you post a thread asking for help designing a plan.

If you decide to take a class, do your research and choose a quality class that fits your needs. For example, any language class in the format of a three-hour lecture should be skipped, in my opinion, since part of the value of a class is that it gives you a chance to practice using the language and receive feedback from the teacher.

I will say that quality group language classes are often hard to find. My personal opinion and experience is that, if you can afford it, a private tutor is the way to go. Perhaps your work would subsidize a private tutor? There are many quality French teachers available online via platforms like iTalki. Again, choose carefully (I would select someone with a degree in FLE and several years of experience minimum) and be prepared to try out a few tutors before finding one whose pedagogical approach and personality are a good fit for you. High-quality professional teachers are in demand and are more expensive than the uncredentialed 'community tutors', but in my view it's worth the money because they know what they're doing.

2. If you have the time for both, combining a (good) class or a private teacher with additional self-study will enhance your learning. I would argue, even, that it's essential to do both - anyone who thinks that showing up at a class a couple times a week and not working on the language independently in between sessions is going to lead them to mastery is in for a disappointment. Of course, this combined approach works best with a private tutor (who will go at your pace) or a fast-paced class filled with classmates who are serious about rapid language acquisition, because in a slow-paced class you risk getting too far ahead and then just being bored.
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