n+1/2, n+100 & n-1

[language2015]

I described this theory as, "Understanding a language is a combination of two things: an earworm, and a lucky moment when you can figure out what it means." This seems intuitively plausible to me, on some level—I'd hear my wife say things to the kids over and over, and one day, she'd say those familiar sounds in exactly the right circumstances and everything would "click."

I can't prove any of this, but I've definitely been experimenting with it. This is why I decided to Anki sound cards for Spanish—they're a very efficient way to simulate the familiarity I'd get from hearing the same subjects discussed day after day, and to burn the raw sound patterns into my brain. Once the raw sounds are familiar, it's easier to "attach" the meanings to them, at least for me.

Once again, though, raw listening doesn't actually build comprehension directly. But it may lay some very handy groundwork, as far as I can tell.

I would love to see the results of your experiment.

[language2015]

I do not suggest that language2015 is trying to learn gibberish or dolphinese (which is my way of illustrating the notion of N+100). On the contrary I point out that he is studying something much closer to N+1 than it is to N+100 - otherwise he wouldn't be able to separate difficult from impossible passages.

I can watch a program for fifteen minutes before I hear a word I know and understand.

"blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahtúblahblahblahblahblahblahblahyoblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahquéblahblahblah."

If that isn't n+100 I don't know what is.

I will say I can hear one word and have a good grasp of a scene. For example; watching a program I understood that a character had informed her boyfriend that she was pregnant and didn't want to have an abortion. I knew they were a couple because the two had sex two episodes prior and in other scenes it seem like they were living together. I assumed she told her boyfriend she was pregnant, I don't know for sure. Anyway, I heard the spanish word for abortion and suddenly understood the plot of the last two minute scene.

My 1 word out of 100 ratio is what keeps me watching.

[language2015]

Drawing from the above, language2015 has done the right thing in choosing the type of content he likes. I will assume that his "baby books" are quite literally that and "cartoons" refers to something that has slightly more dialogue than La Linea. Regarding his question, which I will not attempt to analyze but which I did not find crystal clear :

"Would I be better off not whining about boring n+1 material, anki a bunch of basic sentences (el perro, el perro blanco, el perro blanco come, el perro blanco come el gato,...) and watch boring cartoons for six months than continuing with what I'm doing now?"

He is most certainly better off studying instead of whining. It does not escape me that it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

You are not funny

Should I consume boring easy material or continue to watch hard interesting material?

Clear amigo?

[language2015]

I just can't wrap my head around it when people talk about reading books with a 50% or 75% or 80% comprehension rate. That must be utterly exhausting. I much prefer to stick with easy stuff!

For me it's basically "I would rather be confused for 10 minutes than bored for 5 seconds"
I also find that a knowledge of linguistics helps

?

Other than soccer and lyrics training what easy content do you watch?

5 seconds of boredom is a tiny cost to pay for fluency. It's just that not a lot of easy material is only boring for five seconds.

[IchBinEinPoly]

Five minutes isn't going to take you to fluency. People who advocate for the traditional methods of language learning- hefty grammar texts, enormous amounts of rote memorization, etc.- require thousands of such boring hours

[language2015]

Five minutes isn't going to take you to fluency. People who advocate for the traditional methods of language learning- hefty grammar texts, enormous amounts of rote memorization, etc.- require thousands of such boring hours

I don't find grammar and rote memorization boring...

[Bao]

My 1 word out of 100 ratio is what keeps me watching.

I did that with Japanese, well, that is mostly for the cute actors. It kind of works best at the very early stages when you can follow the kind of storytelling (not if it's a genre that you've never watched before) because your brain latches onto all the words you already know, which are few but frequently occuring ones.
Later on it isn't as easy because you simply don't get the same kind of reinforcement anymore. You'd need to repeat the same scenes over and over again to get the necessary exposure to actually remember the words you figured out from watching them being used. And despite actually understanding more, it feels like you understand less (because you get a better idea of what you're missing), and then it stopped being as enjoyable for me. For me, that particular feeling also never returns - but at some point it's replaced by something better, the feeling of familiarity I realize I have when I notice that I've been able to follow the plot while looking at the knitting in my hands for the last five minutes. Just, I don't get from the stage where I understand the highest frequency words to that where I understand most of what's being said solely by watching series without subtitles.

[reineke]

I do not suggest that language2015 is trying to learn gibberish or dolphinese (which is my way of illustrating the notion of N+100). On the contrary I point out that he is studying something much closer to N+1 than it is to N+100 - otherwise he wouldn't be able to separate difficult from impossible passages.

I can watch a program for fifteen minutes before I hear a word I know and understand.

"blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahtúblahblahblahblahblahblahblahyoblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahquéblahblahblah."

If that isn't n+100 I don't know what is.

I will say I can hear one word and have a good grasp of a scene. For example; watching a program I understood that a character had informed her boyfriend that she was pregnant and didn't want to have an abortion. I knew they were a couple because the two had sex two episodes prior and in other scenes it seem like they were living together. I assumed she told her boyfriend she was pregnant, I don't know for sure. Anyway, I heard the spanish word for abortion and suddenly understood the plot of the last two minute scene.

My 1 word out of 100 ratio is what keeps me watching.

I thought it was the interesting material that kept you watching. What you're describing is n (for "next to nothing") + 1. You've reconstructed the main idea behind a scene based on visual cues and a single key word. You'll need 80% vocabulary coverage and strong listening skills in order to have a good grasp on a "hard" scene. Regardless, figuring out words from context can be exhilarating. I am not being skeptical, I believe you can learn a language this way with or without additional tools. Given that you don't find grammar boring etc. you can supplement your studies with anything you like. Now as to whether you're better off with a different type of material... it depends.
I believe that you've already realized that you will be able to figure out more words and structures from simpler content. If you have the stamina for it, this path will have a cumulative effect and reward you later on. You could try to make some sort of compromise and find simpler, interesting material, watch your video with Spanish subtitles on (if they match) etc.

[IchBinEinPoly]

Five minutes isn't going to take you to fluency. People who advocate for the traditional methods of language learning- hefty grammar texts, enormous amounts of rote memorization, etc.- require thousands of such boring hours

I don't find grammar and rote memorization boring...

Most people do, but you're entitled to your opinions.

[Serpent]

Not necessarily most language learners. In my first few languages, I totally loved learning the grammar. eventually it did get kinda boring.

?

Other than soccer and lyrics training what easy content do you watch?

5 seconds of boredom is a tiny cost to pay for fluency. It's just that not a lot of easy material is only boring for five seconds.

That was of course an exaggerated example. And by confused I really mean clueless and lost, not just unsure.

Not sure why you asked about easy content. The quote specifically implies using hard but interesting content, or doing any fun activities.

I do use some easy content, but it has to be special in some way. For example, from what's listed here, I like the Moomins, LOTR, HP, Eddings and the non-fiction like Anne Frank's diary and Christiane F.

I also use various techniques from here - the article is about grammar, but these also work for vocabulary. Specifically, I like LR and parallel texts, both of which generally require an L1 translation. Please read this article if you still haven't.

To some extent, I think you're comparing apples and oranges. It's not really very scientific when we say we understand 60% of the content, but the feeling is very real. And in movies you can understand a lot with minimal vocabulary, unless you want to watch a particularly unusual movie.

Also, I highly recommend a book like "Spanish vocabulary: an etymological approach". As Iversen pointed out, in a Romance language an English speaker already starts out as less than i+100. As a reminder of how lucky you are, here's a Finnish song:




What exactly made you ask your question? How long have you been watching these shows? I'd give it about a month. If you feel like you're not making progress, try something easier.
How much do you understand in writing?