Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

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Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

I prefer Original Works.
31
84%
I prefer translations into my Target Language.
6
16%
 
Total votes: 37

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luke
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Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby luke » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:31 am

By "within a genre", I mean for example, popular non-fiction (aimed at general audiences), or novels, or academic works, etc.

I'm hoping people will expand their answer to this simple poll.

Does it matter to you if a work was originally written in your Target Language or not?
Are translated works easier?
Do you have a strategy as to when to add non-translated works in your language learning journey?
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby DaveAgain » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:03 pm

luke wrote:By "within a genre", I mean for example, popular non-fiction (aimed at general audiences), or novels, or academic works, etc.

I'm hoping people will expand their answer to this simple poll.

Does it matter to you if a work was originally written in your Target Language or not?
If there's a choice between two comparable options, I'd prefer the Target Language option, but it's a weak preference. Price and reader reviews are the strongest influences on me.
Are translated works easier?
I'd guess on average yes, but that's not something you can depend on.
Do you have a strategy as to when to add non-translated works in your language learning journey?
No.
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby språker » Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:58 pm

For my stronger languages, I would prefer material written originally in that language over material that is translated into that language. But generally my interest in the text and the level/difficulty is a bigger preference, I think.

My current target language level s not high enough to be too snobby about a text being original or not. Rather, it helps if it is simple enough (without being silly), and translations opens up more possibilities.

For language learning am am fully into fiction/fantasy now. I am convincing myself that "telling a story" is the best way read when I still quite often struggle to understand the text. It is slightly easier to focus on the plot, and not worrying too much about the large amount of unknowns. Just bought another book, Eragon by Paolini, that I intend to read when I finished LOTR. Maybe it even will be a bit easier. I mainly chose it because it was as well available with audio, and within the same genre I already dug into.
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby iguanamon » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:44 pm

luke wrote:...Does it matter to you if a work was originally written in your Target Language or not? Are translated works easier? Do you have a strategy as to when to add non-translated works in your language learning journey?

My thoughts on this have changed dramatically over the years. Yes, reading original literature in a TL is important. A translation from my L1 (English) into L2 is noticeable. Often the phrasing and rhythm is different than original L2. The words and idioms are L2 but... not quite.

Translation is always a compromise. A translator owes to the author to be faithful to their meaning and ideas as accurately as possible for L2 readers. When I, as a reader in my L1, am reading a translated work from another language in my native language, I expect a translation to be loyal to what the original author is trying to convey. I also expect the language to be fluid, sensible, and relatable in my L1. It is a hard balance to achieve. Often translation is a compromise between both languages, sounding not quite native in L2, yet not so stilted as to be unreadable. You know it when you see it.

In Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol, the vast majority of the historical novels in Rashi text are not faithful translations but more like "adaptations" into the language. They have been changed so much that if they were translated back into L1, they would be different books. Exceptions are the more recent, faithful translations by Ladino scholar Avner Perez of "The Little Prince" and "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland". There is very little original literature in Djudeo-espanyol.

When I started reading in Haitian Creole, I started with the Old Testament of the Bible in a modern (1999) translation. Reading it gave me a jump-start with acquiring vocabulary. I already knew the OT quite well from my native language. I also read a translation of "Robinson Crusoe"/"Woben Lakwa" which had an accompanying workbook text from one of the translator collaborators- a university professor in Haitian Creole. I also read original folklore tales along the same time and later original novels. So, translations (human-made), in my experience, can be quite useful for learners- especially if one is familiar with the original in L1.

As to when to add in original L2 works, I do it at or near the beginning. While I started out reading a translation of "Gulliver's Travels" in Catalan, I followed it fairly closely with "El Zoo d'en Pitus" an original work for juvenile readers. I enjoy reading "noir" genre works in Catalan- many of which are English originals, but have also read original noir works in Catalan and have enjoyed them immensely.

A translated novel or non-fiction book can be quite useful in L2. If I would read a book anyway in my native language, I can still read the book in translation, gain the information the author is conveying and stay within the language I am learning. Translations exist for a reason- L2 readers want to read them and they don't speak the L1 original well enough to read it in L1. Translators don't translate novels expressly for L2 learners. They are translated for native-speakers.

Let's look at the current AP list of the top 10 bestseller books in Chile:
AP en español wrote:CHILE
1.- “Todo lo que nunca fuimos” - Alice Kellen
2.- “Heartstopper 3” - Alice Oseman
3.- “El jardín de los inocentes” - Carlos Pinto
4.- “Una magia más oscura” - V.E. Schwab
5.- “Arsene Lupin, caballero ladrón” - Maurice Leblanc
6.- “Strange” - Alex Mírez
7.- “Después” - Stephen King
8.- “El manuscrito” - John Grisham
9.- “Heist” - Adriana Godoy
10.- “Ciudad Medialuna” - Sarah J. Maas

Note that author "Alice Kellen" is a pseudonym for a Spanish author from Valencia. Many of these are translations into Spanish. Native-speakers them selves often read translations.

Like most aspects of learning another language, reading translations or originals does not have to be an "either/or" false dichotomy. A reader can and will find their own balance over time. That's why I didn't vote in the poll, because it does not include a third option- "both".
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:31 pm

In order to get books read generally - because time is short and there is apparently 1000 or more of them I need to read before doomsday - I distribute them among langages I can read best. So this means if I am planning to read e.g. a Julian Barnes novel the choice would be to read it in English or move it to French or Dutch at a push German. All this means I can get through books I'd like to read whilst allowing for reading maintenance down the line.

Often I want to read the book in the original language, and that goes for English as much as any if it is the original language, but I'm willing to read those in another language if necessary. I don't really like reading translations from French, I would rather read original French. Dutch/German I've read translations in English, but would prefer the original if necessary. Like Iguanamon I find there are oddities within translations. English books into French or Dutch (literature I mean) are sometimes poorly translated and they fail with the jokes or idioms. Sometimes you can see what was really meant and how it was rendered.

Learning: In every language I've pursued there has been some translated material, though it's been random and not because there was a plan or translated material was some kind of stepping stone. I read nothing except original language works when learning Dutch. With German I read quite a few detective novels and pulp fiction translated from various languages (Scandinavian, English, Japanese...). With Spanish I've read some translations, but mostly stuck to original literature.

The reason for sticking to original literature is because I want not only the language to be in the TL, but the surrounding culture and occurrences. If the Spanish novel is about Spanish people doing things people in Spain (or some other Spanish-speaking place) do as they would normally do, I feel I learn and get more. If it was e.g. Sherlock Holmes in Spanish that's really just a Spanish rendering of English mannerisms and life and speech quirks and that's only half the value for me.
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby Irena » Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:17 pm

Back when I was a teenager learning English, I read a lot of translations. At the time, I simply didn't think about this sort of thing very much, and in any case, it was hard to get hold of books in English, and so I read whatever I could find. After I learned French and Russian, I basically stopped reading any translations at all because I felt I now had access to more high quality literature than I could ever hope to read, and so why bother with translations (and the inevitable mistranslations)? But then I started learning Czech, and then I started reading Czech literature, and - I did not like Czech literature. :( But I still needed to learn Czech, and so I decided to read translations into Czech. It worked. But eventually, I found some Czech authors who were more to my liking, so now I'm moving away from translations again. 8-)
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:04 pm

Irena wrote:But then I started learning Czech, and then I started reading Czech literature, and - I did not like Czech literature. :( But I still needed to learn Czech, and so I decided to read translations into Czech.

This is an interesting side question. The situation when you 'need' to learn a language, but really don't like much of the literature. A curious position to be in and different from if you don't really have to learn the language, because then you could just throw it all up anyway.

I'd worry about it a little, because literature in the original language tends to be such a trove of extra-linguistic information and it seems to me writers writing in their own language use the language differently; or at least discuss things differently. What do you think?
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby Irena » Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:24 pm

Le Baron wrote:I'd worry about it a little, because literature in the original language tends to be such a trove of extra-linguistic information and it seems to me writers writing in their own language use the language differently; or at least discuss things differently. What do you think?

What you read will affect the way you speak/write, and I agree that translations can sound different from originals. However, the truth of the matter is that if you learn a language as an adult, you'll never sound fully native-like. So, this is not something I'd worry about too much. When it comes to Czech in particular, those Czech authors whom I actually like wrote between the two World Wars, and Czech has evolved quite a bit since then. If you suddenly started using 1930s Czech, you'd sound pretty weird. Modern translations sound more like standard contemporary Czech than those old novels do. And as for the more modern Czech books, (a) I didn't much like those that I read, and (b) apparently, quite a lot of modern Czech literature is full of slang, whereas I'd much rather learn standard Czech, which I can use without issue in a wide variety of situations. Translated works will generally use standard Czech.
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby BeaP » Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:24 pm

I mostly read originals. I like to learn languages through their cultures and some writers are simply geniuses of the language. For me one of the most important advantages of advanced knowledge is that you get to appreciate the style of good writers. You see that a novel for example is not just a good story, its language is beautiful as well. The biggest problem with my approach is that because of my pickiness I need to spend a lot of time searching for books. Only bestsellers are advertised and have visibility, so for me it always takes ages to mine for interesting and high-quality books that are appropriate for my level.

In the case of Spanish I read popular fiction, but now with Italian I'm reading graphic novels and non-fiction (mostly about art, like Figure by Falcinelli). There are infinite choices in every culture, and I'm still learning to be open and flexible.

I do read translations when I'm interested in something but I don't know the language it's written in. Spanish has become a kind of 'mediating' language for me, and I've read Mircea Cărtărescu's Nostalgia or Het volgende verhaal by Cees Nooteboom in Spanish. I've also discovered that some books are suprisingly not translated to English, but they're translated to Spanish. So every language opens a door to thousands of books that I can choose from. When I read such books I feel that my work was not in vain, that even though I rarely travel to a certain country, learning the language has given me something special.
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Re: Does Translation versus Original Work matter with a genre?

Postby CaroleR » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:18 pm

I chose that I prefer originals, however, my latest two books have been translations from English. One is from a mystery series by an author who lives in and writes about the area where my TL is spoken, as do her translators. The other is, oddly, a French translation of The Story of French, originally written in English. One of the co-authors is English but speaks French and the other is French. I would assume that the translations are well done, but that said, I'm not yet at a level whereby I can discern their quality. At this stage of my learning, I don't think that it matters much since I'm just trying to learn the language. Native material will probably become more important as I advance, though. Basically, what I'm saying is, it depends on one's level in the TL. Maybe I should change my answer. :D
Le Baron wrote: … The situation when you 'need' to learn a language, but really don't like much of the literature.
Yes, that too, even when you just 'want' to learn a language.
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