How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
Kraut
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2600
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:37 pm
Languages: German (N)
French (C)
English (C)
Spanish (A2)
Lithuanian
x 3204

How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kraut » Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:16 pm

If it is correct (?) pronouncing "tener uM plan B", how do Spanish speakers react to pronouncing "tener uN plan B" ?
0 x

User avatar
anitarrc
Orange Belt
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:10 am
Location: Luxembourg
Languages: Moved around... English + German + Spanish + Dutch + French + Portuguese
used daily
Catalá Russian Serbian: struggling but improving. Bahasa..needs refreshment
x 304
Contact:

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby anitarrc » Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:55 pm

Pero, ¿por qué quiere poner una M en lugar de la N?
1 x

Kraut
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2600
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:37 pm
Languages: German (N)
French (C)
English (C)
Spanish (A2)
Lithuanian
x 3204

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kraut » Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:05 pm

It's rare, but I have just checked another one. My Langenscheidt gives me the pronunciation of /imput/ for Spanish "input".
If this exists in Spanish, you can call it "regressive assimilation".
Then "un baño" can be pronounced as /umbaño/.
-----
and the list goes on:

infusion /iMfusion/
infraestructura /iMfraestructura/


....

https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/i ... angFrom=es
pronounces /n/
Last edited by Kraut on Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
0 x

User avatar
anitarrc
Orange Belt
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:10 am
Location: Luxembourg
Languages: Moved around... English + German + Spanish + Dutch + French + Portuguese
used daily
Catalá Russian Serbian: struggling but improving. Bahasa..needs refreshment
x 304
Contact:

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby anitarrc » Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:25 pm

Kraut wrote:It's rare, but I have just checked another one. My Langenscheidt gives me the pronunciation of /imput/ for Spanish "input".
If this exists in Spanish, you can call it "regressive assimilation".
Then "un bano" can be pronounced as /umbano/. (I don't have tilde for bano)
-----
and the list goes on:

infusion /iMfusion/
infraestructura /iMfraestructura/

....

Bueno, en realidad no te entiendo
in·fra·es·truk·tu·ra

es lo que dice mi diccionario técnico.

:D el ñ de baño está a la derecha de la tecla l y a la izquierda del ´.
0 x

Odair
Yellow Belt
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:45 am
Languages: en (C1), fr (B2), es (C1), it (B1), pt_br(N)
x 159

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Odair » Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:35 pm

The tip of your tongue reaches the alveolar ridge for the N at the same time your lips touch for the P/B.
0 x

Dragon27
Blue Belt
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:40 am
Languages: Russian (N)
English - best foreign language
Polish, Spanish - passive advanced
Tatar, German, French, Greek - studying
x 1375

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Dragon27 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:31 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_p ... d_laterals
The three nasal phonemes—/m/, /n/, and /ɲ/—maintain their contrast when in syllable-initial position (e.g. cama 'bed', cana 'grey hair', caña 'sugar cane'). In syllable-final position, this three-way contrast is lost as nasals assimilate to the place of articulation of the following consonant—even across a word boundary; or, if a nasal is followed by a pause rather than a consonant, it is realized for most speakers as alveolar [n] (though in Caribbean varieties, this may instead be [ŋ] or an omitted nasal with nasalization of the preceding vowel). Thus /n/ is realized as [m] before labial consonants, and as [ŋ] before velar ones.

or in Spanish (more accurate, I think)
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonolog%C ... 3%A1nticos
Los fonemas nasales /m/ y /n/ se neutralizan en posición de final de sílaba, asimilándose a la consonante siguiente. Los alófonos en los que se neutralizan dependerán del punto de articulación de la consonante a la que preceden.
Ante bilabial el alófono será [m].
Ante labiodental el alófono será [ɱ].
Ante alveolar o pausa final absoluta el alófono será [n].
Ante palatal el alófono será [ɲ].
Ante velar el alófono será [ŋ].
Ante uvular el alófono será [ɴ].

Of course, that is what actually happens in the spoken language, even if the native speakers aren't aware of that. When articulating slowly and with precision (as when saying a word on command), they may try to avoid assimilation and pronounce the phonemes in the way they believe they should be pronounced, not the way they are actually pronounced when spoken normally, spontaneously.
6 x

Kraut
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2600
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:37 pm
Languages: German (N)
French (C)
English (C)
Spanish (A2)
Lithuanian
x 3204

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kraut » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:47 pm

Odair wrote:The tip of your tongue reaches the alveolar ridge for the N at the same time your lips touch for the P/B.


Just say "un baño" and feel your tongue and your lips. It does not happen at the same time.
Last edited by Kraut on Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 x

Kraut
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2600
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:37 pm
Languages: German (N)
French (C)
English (C)
Spanish (A2)
Lithuanian
x 3204

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kraut » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:56 pm

Ante bilabial el alófono será [m].

This would be in "un baño" /uMBaño/
----------------------------------------------
Ante labiodental el alófono será [ɱ]

This would be in "confinamiento", my Langenscheidt transcribes /ko(open)MF/, /F/ being labiodental

Here is a recording with "confinamiento", round minute 6:50: this would be [ɱ] then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_4xcgR ... lclassroom 6:

--------

Here is a German example, that I do myself. English "five" is "fünf" in German, but I also often say " fümf" or in my dialect "femf".
Last edited by Kraut on Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 x

User avatar
Querneus
Blue Belt
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:28 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Languages: Speaks: Spanish (N), English
Studying: Latin, French, Mandarin
x 2269

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Querneus » Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:01 pm

Kraut wrote:If it is correct (?) pronouncing "tener uM plan B",

Yeah, we pronounce that "um plam B", basically.

how do Spanish speakers react to pronouncing "tener uN plan B" ?

Most likely people won't even notice. Our hearing (our brain) is just not well-attuned to hearing different syllable-final nasals.
4 x

User avatar
Kullman
Orange Belt
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:54 pm
Languages: Spanish (N) Galician (N) English (B2)
x 201

Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kullman » Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:06 pm

I have been playing for a while with my tongue between my palate and my teeth, and I think I got an answer for you.

When I pronounce "um", the tongue touches the end of the palate (or it's the beginning?), almost touching the base of the center incisives teeth.

When I pronounce "un", even if the tongue stays almost in the same position, it never touches the palate.

EDIT: I have been repeating the phrase a few times, and I can see where the misconception must be... When saying fast "un plan b", the n and the p "converge" and the n could sound a bit like an "m" to the untrained ear, even if the tongue never touches the palate.

I wouldn't recommend to use "um" as a substitute of "un", because it would probably provoke more than one chuckle to any native speaker...

The "Ñ", otherwise, is quite different from N or M... it sounds like the NH in portuguese.
2 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests