How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kraut » Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:44 pm

When I pronounce "um", the tongue touches the end of the palate (or it's the beginning?), almost touching the base of the center incisives teeth.

When I pronounce "un", even if the tongue stays almost in the same position, it never touches the palate.


No, it's the other way round (/n/ vs /m/)

"Regressive assimilation" phonetically/phonologically means that a feature of a following sound affects the preceding sound. The feature here is the "bilabial" quality of the sounds /p/ and /b/ which results in /umplambe/. Your enunciation thus gets more speed. If you prounounce /n/ and /p/, the enunciation takes longer.

An example of machine-gun Spanish which gives me a head-ache:

María Méndez: '101 preguntas para ser profe de ELE'
https://www.rtve.es/play/audios/un-idio ... 22/6463789
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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kullman » Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:15 am

I have been testing with different sentences at a fast rate, and the tongue never touches the palate while saying un, and neither with a lot of words started with "p" (perro or paladar), so the "m" like sound is never produced.

I think it's the following "l" in the word "plan" what does the trick, as the tongue needs to touch the palate to produce that sound.

If you pronounce the word "pila" (battery) slowly, you would "see" it more clearly, I think.
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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Saim » Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:28 am

The tongue doesn't touch the palate when you produce [m]. The sound is bilabial, not palatal.

[n] is pronounced with the tongue touching the alveolar ridge.
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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kullman » Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:56 pm

Saim wrote:The tongue doesn't touch the palate when you produce [m]. The sound is bilabial, not palatal.

[n] is pronounced with the tongue touching the alveolar ridge.


You are half right and half wrong, i'm afraid...

We are talking about the phonemes "un" and "um", and the "u" also plays in this case.

If I say "na", the tongue touches, as you point, the alveolar ridge, but when I pronounce "un", it doesn't. In fact the point of the tongue doesn't touch anything...

The same occurs when I pronouce "an", "en", "in" or "on".

When I pronounce "ma", the tongue almost doesn't move, but when I pronounce "um" (as in umbilical), it touches the alveolar ridge.

I propose an experiment... touch the alveolar ridge with the tip of your tongue, part your lips, and try to make a sound. how it sounds like?
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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Saim » Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:02 pm

Kullman wrote:If I say "na", the tongue touches, as you point, the alveolar ridge, but when I pronounce "un", it doesn't. In fact the point of the tongue doesn't touch anything... The same occurs when I pronouce "an", "en", "in" or "on".


If you're from Galicia your variety of Spanish (as is the case of Galician), has the velar nasal [ŋ] in un.

When I pronounce "ma", the tongue almost doesn't move, but when I pronounce "um" (as in umbilical), it touches the alveolar ridge.

I propose an experiment... touch the alveolar ridge with the tip of your tongue, part your lips, and try to make a sound. how it sounds like?


I guess it's possible in principle that you're coarticulating lips + alveolar ridge when pronouncing [m] but that's not something I've noticed in any academic description of Spanish phonetics (or indeed of any language) I've come across and I suspect it wouldn't make much of an acoustic difference either way.
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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Kullman » Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:47 pm

I'm from Galicia, yes, but I'm also from Ferrol, so you might be surprised...

I have been testing that n you said... which is produced touching with the tip of the tongue in the teeth (as in "think"), and I'm pretty sure I don't use it in spanish.

Unfortunately, I'm passing a cold, and my voice isn't in t he best shape, but as soon as it get in shape, I will record some examples.
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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby Saim » Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:26 pm

Get well soon!

Kullman wrote:I'm from Galicia, yes, but I'm also from Ferrol, so you might be surprised...

I have been testing that n you said... which is produced touching with the tip of the tongue in the teeth (as in "think"), and I'm pretty sure I don't use it in spanish.


[ŋ] is pronounced with the back of the tongue on the soft palate.

Pronounced with the tip of the tongue touching the teeth would be [n̪], or a dental nasal. This occurs in Spanish before dental consonants as an allophone of the alveolar /n/.
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Re: How to pronounce "tener un plan B"?

Postby piotr » Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:29 am

This is my first post on the forum, so first I'd like to say "Hello, folks!" :D

To the point:

Bogotá, CO:

t̪e̞nɛ̝ɾ u̞m plɐm be̞

Leticia, CO:

t̪e̽nə̟ɾ ʊ̃ɱ plæ̠̃ɱ be̽

Medellín, CO:

t̪ene̞ˑɾ ũ̞ɱ plɐ̃ɱ be

Pasto, CO:

t̪ɜnɛ̈ːɾ om plæ̈m βɜ

Quibdó, CO:

t̪ɜnɛ̈ˑɾ̥ ũ̞ɱ plɐ̃ɱ βɜ

Santa Marta, CO:

t̪ɜ̝nɜɾ̥ ʊ̃ɱ plæ̠̃ɱ βɜ̝

Bilbao, ES:

t̪ə̟nɛ̈ɾ õɱ plɐ̝̃ɱ βə̟

Cádiz, ES:

t̪ɜnɜ̟ɾ ʊ̃ɱ plɐ̝̃ɱ βɜ

Madrid, ES:

t̪ɛ̝nɛɾ u̞m plɐm βɛ̝

Ciudad de México, MX:

tɛ̽nɛ̈ɾ ʊm pl̠ʌm βɛ̽
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