Self-taught study

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John Dunne
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Self-taught study

Postby John Dunne » Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:35 pm

Let's take a student with a low level of English (let's say A2). If he\she practises alone four hours a day for ten months (writing and correction with automatic programmes, grammar exercises, reading and translation of texts, listening to audio with transcription attempt), what level could he\she reach after ten months?
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Iversen
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby Iversen » Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:36 am

Probably more than A2, but a total burn-out would be more likely. Actually that's much more likely than reaching C2. And I noticed that you included writing, but not speaking (is the learner in question a social recluse?), and there isn't anything about motivation. To do four hours daily for ten months (on top of a job?) you need a good external motivation, or you have to be obsessed with language learning.
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby anitarrc » Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:57 am

Iversen wrote:Probably more than A2, but a total burn-out would be more likely. Actually that's much more likely than reaching C2. And I noticed that you included writing, but not speaking (is the learner in question a social recluse?), and there isn't anything about motivation. To do four hours daily for ten months (on top of a job?) you need a good external motivation, or you have to be obsessed with language learning.


There are two explanations: the person is in a trappist monastery and otherwise busy brewing beer or he is in the nick. I had a mate during my mostly remote studies who was a real expert i some fields. I never met him till the last semester.. it turned out he was doing 15 years for.. well nobody's business really.
Boy did he study! He finished secondary school and a ME in Electrical engineering in there and yes he received parole after doing 11 years as a reward.
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby Cavesa » Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:40 pm

Ten months are a lot, but something like this is totally doable for a month or two, and could already lead to B1. In ten months, a very burn out resistant person could get to C1 imho. But yes, the risk would be there.
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Le Baron
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby Le Baron » Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:37 pm

A good level of semi-academic English. Then during attempts to use it in the real world another layer of learning will begin.
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby dylan413 » Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:21 pm

I agree with most of the previous responses. I've attempted this sort of feat before and it leads to burnout every time. I would say that I have the capacity to be quite disciplined when it comes to language learning, but I need consistent social interaction in the language. I have no issue studying languages independently for long periods of time in the range of 30-60 minutes per day, but if I'm going to maintain motivation I need a tutor, class, or conversation partners, friends in order to keep it up. From my experience having regular classes/tutoring sessions is more important because they keep me motivated and disciplined than because of the actual knowledge the instructor imparts on me.

Also, except in extremely specific circumstances, 4 hours of study per day just isn't realistic for most people over a period of ten months. If you move to a country where the TL is spoken and you have an extremely open schedule or you're taking intensive classes in the language then it's possible. But apart from that, for most people it just isn't. I have done this before for even more than ten months, but I was living in a TL country and the sole purpose of my time there was to learn the language. Personally, I never would be able to replicate this under other circumstances.
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby Querneus » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:40 pm

Hasn't IronMike our resident DLI guy mentioned DLI students do about 6 hours of class instruction + maybe 2 of lone study per day (the post)? 4 hours per day sounds doable if you have the motivation and energy for it... which is not a small "if" admittedly. DLI students basically do language learning as their job.
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby desafiar » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:20 pm

There was no mention of conversation or coaching. Without that and only using machine correction for writting, I don't see reaching any true CEFR level.

But for the practiced skills, a solid B2 in written work, perhaps C1 on a good day could probably be obtained. Aural skills would be harder to predict, but if half the specified time were dedicated to audio, that would be about 150 hours. Probably enough to make a solid B1, or low B2.
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TopDog_IK
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby TopDog_IK » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:19 pm

John Dunne wrote:Let's take a student with a low level of English (let's say A2). If he\she practises alone four hours a day for ten months (writing and correction with automatic programmes, grammar exercises, reading and translation of texts, listening to audio with transcription attempt), what level could he\she reach after ten months?


Why doesn't this student just do like tens of millions of other young people these days and learn English by watching English-language TV shows, films and youtube? Studying textbooks and grammar drills 4 hours per sounds like torture; watching your favorite English shows 4 hours per day sounds like a breeze.
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Re: Self-taught study

Postby badger » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:55 am

desafiar wrote:But for the practiced skills, a solid B2 in written work, perhaps C1 on a good day could probably be obtained. Aural skills would be harder to predict, but if half the specified time were dedicated to audio, that would be about 150 hours. Probably enough to make a solid B1, or low B2.

half of 10 months at four hours/day would be ~600 hours, which I would have thought would be plenty for a decent B2 level of listening comprehension.

I love your profile image btw :)
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