Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

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frenchfish55
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Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby frenchfish55 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:03 pm

I know there are plenty of guidance like "REpeat Michel Thomas CD", Shadowing, etc
1 Is it better than just listening podcasts of your level(intermediate like RFI francaise facile, innerFrench?
2 What is better repeat one episode few times or always listen new episode?

3. Is Michel Thomas better than native podcasts, like InnerFrench, Piece of French?
4. Did you try SUBSrc adding to ANKI short sentences with audio?

5.What would you do if your listening doesn't improve? Listen more or try repeating many times(with subtitles,without subtitles) or ...
6 What works best for you?
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Cavesa
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Re: Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby Cavesa » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:38 pm

These are several totally independent issues.

1.Shadowing and repeating after audio are two different things. Shadowing is repeating right after, while the audio is still running. Repeating is the better known use of the pause button. I don't use Shadowing, I cannot stand it just like I'd feel extremely uncomfortable playing an instrument and being always slightly behind the orchestra in the musical piece. But I do a lot of repeating after audio and find it excellent.

2.Better for listening? It is not supposed to be primarily a listening improvement tool, it is all about speaking, pronunciation, getting used to producing the langauge following correct models. I don't think it really affects speaking.

3.Both techniques can be used on absolutely anything. Michel Thomas, RFI facile, the audio coming with any mainstream monolingual coursebook, forvo, audiobook, tv show, anything. So, the question "what resource is better" is totally independent from the title of this thread. And what is "boring", that is a totally individual thing.

4.Whether to do one episode more times, or more episodes once: It is a matter of personal preference. I simply think you need to repeat a lot.

5.I personally don't like Michel Thomas. I think it used to be great and revolutionary, but it is no longer the case, and there are better alternatives. But whatever resources you use, I recommend using them very actively. Repeat stuff out loud or do shadowing. Write stuff down. Do substitution exercises with the examples. Do more exercises from books. And so on. Two people using the same coursebook might be using it totally differently and getting totally different results.

6.I don't put audio to Anki. But some people do and it can be a great thing. For me, it is not worth the effort, as Anki is just one of the supplemental activities I do, I get tons of listening exposure outside of it.

7.If listening doesn't improve: one of the things to do is more listening. Obviously. But one thing people seem to underestimate all the time: it is very often a general comprehension problem. If you don't know the vocabulary, if you have no understanding of the grammar used, of course you cannot understand it. If your listening is bad, perhaps your problem is not just listening, but also vocabulary and grammar. Your brain doesn't know what it should pick from the stream of sounds.

8.For me:
-for listening: tons of listening. first stuff that comes with coursebooks and similar tools. Then tons of native input from B1 on
-repeating after audio for pronunciation and speaking in general.
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Re: Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby frenchfish55 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:48 pm

Cavesa wrote:.

Thank you. Excellent advices
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Re: Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby rdearman » Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:52 pm

frenchfish55 wrote:
Cavesa wrote:.

Thank you. Excellent advices

In English, "advice" is like "hair". One hair or a lot of hair, there is no S attached. Same with advice, one or many it is just advice. :lol:
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frenchfish55
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Re: Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby frenchfish55 » Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:59 am

rdearman wrote: HAIR

thanks for advise :-)
There is russian proverb about Hair.
A voice is like HAIR in your b*tt. Thin, Long but it's not clear (Голос, как в п*пе волос. Тонок, Долог но не чист.
Now you know
Cultural exchange :D
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Re: Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby kujichagulia » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:45 am

frenchfish55 wrote:I know there are plenty of guidance like "REpeat Michel Thomas CD", Shadowing, etc
1 Is it better than just listening podcasts of your level(intermediate like RFI francaise facile, innerFrench?
2 What is better repeat one episode few times or always listen new episode?

3. Is Michel Thomas better than native podcasts, like InnerFrench, Piece of French?
4. Did you try SUBSrc adding to ANKI short sentences with audio?

5.What would you do if your listening doesn't improve? Listen more or try repeating many times(with subtitles,without subtitles) or ...
6 What works best for you?

1. I might be wrong, but I always thought of shadowing as a speaking activity instead of a listening one. It's something you do to improve your pronunciation and speaking fluency. If the goal is only listening, shadowing might help but might be a bit too much.

2. I think, all things considered, it's better to repeat episodes if you can, because you can get it into your brain a little more and remember the things you heard. However, it depends on what a person can stand. Personally, I can't listen to a podcast repeatedly, because I would find it boring. Better for me to just go to the next podcast. If a person's situation is like mine, then it's better not to listen repeatedly, because the boredom would take away from the language learning.

3. I haven't used Michel Thomas so I'm not sure.

4. I experimented with adding audio to my Anki cards a while back, and I can see why people like it. It adds a little life to each card. However... I think the benefits of having audio on Anki cards get completely eclipsed by the amount of extra time and effort needed to put the audio in the cards when making them. For me, that's more time I spend on Anki, when the goal is to spend as little time as needed. And yeah, there are addons and SUBS2srs, etc., to make making audio cards easier. But I rarely spend time on my home computer. And for me, while you could quickly get literally thousands of audio cards in minimal time by doing it, the effort to actually find movie files, subtitle files, etc., sounds like a lot of work for me. And personally, I get less out of generating cards that way than I do making each Anki note manually. I remember more that way.

5. I think listening more is the best way... maybe the only way. I've heard it said often from experienced language learners that you can't shortcut listening. It takes time. If I need more listening practice, I try to find ways to listen more, whether it's putting earphones on at work, listening while I fall asleep in bed, etc. If I can't find more time for it, then I adjust my expectations and just accept that it's going to take longer than I want - but I'll get there.

6. I have a very "minimalist" approach to language learning right now, so I don't overthink listening practice. I subscribe to a bunch of podcasts in my target language, put some episodes in the queue, and hit "play" whenever I have time to listen. If I'm at home and have time, I might do the same with YouTube videos. I don't repeat anything - except maybe YouTube videos I really like, like Easy Japanese. It's quick and dirty, and it might not get the fast gains you get from other listening methods, but I still get a lot out of it, and it's a lot less stressful for me.
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Re: Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby frenchfish55 » Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:51 pm

kujichagulia wrote:
6. I have a very "minimalist" approach to language learning right now, so I don't overthink listening practice. I subscribe to a bunch of podcasts in my target language, put some episodes in the queue, and hit "play" whenever I have time to listen.

Thank you. I hope this method works :-)
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Re: Is shadowing BORING?Which strategy is better for listening

Postby FRAnglais1919 » Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:13 pm

I asked this same question not long ago and received some great responses. Here is the link: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 17&t=18335

This should help you since you're also learning French. I highly recommend French in Action for your level. It's online at Annenberg Learning Center and it's free. Take your time with it. InnerFrench is also great, as is Comprehensible French Input. I think you're at a level where you just need to learn a handful of common grammatical constructions, and then you'll be ready to listen/read freely. Like someone said in the thread I shared, once you're entering the intermediate stage, it's all about massive exposure to the language.
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