Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
FRAnglais1919
White Belt
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:30 am
Languages: French
English (N)
x 45

Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby FRAnglais1919 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:08 am

I plan on devoting 2-3 hours per day to study French in my free time, and a few hours extra on the weekends. Some of it will be with an online French instructor. I glanced at the DLI/FSI French courses and they look promising. It's not clear which is better for my purposes. But I like the 50+ hours of audio with a French-sounding narrator talking in simple phrases. I might add that I absolutely love reading and dissecting texts, and I don't mind the countless hours of drills and repetitions. I actually find repetitive tasks soothing. Has anyone tried this?

Background: I studied French for about 5 years in the U.S. school system, forgot about it for the next 8, and then picked it back up. I've been "self-studying" for the past year to no avail. My reading comprehension is around early-intermediate level at best (probably between A2 and B1), as is my writing. But speaking and listening are by far the worst. I listened to News in Slow French and One Thing in French a Day podcasts and it's like I've never heard French before. FranceInfo and France Culture were no better—they spoke too fast for me. Same thing with movies (I couldn't understand a word of what was said in La Chèvre, so I shamefully activated the English subtitles 5 minutes in). My goal is to be able to understand complex texts and fast spoken French. I see myself moving to France one day, and learning French is more than just a hobby I've come to enjoy.
1 x

Online
Kraut
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2599
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:37 pm
Languages: German (N)
French (C)
English (C)
Spanish (A2)
Lithuanian
x 3204

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby Kraut » Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:32 am

You may include dictations - there are many sites that offer various levels - in your daily diet. Learn small texts - five, six sentences - by heart and have your tutor correct your pronunciation when reciting them.
3 x

User avatar
RyanSmallwood
Orange Belt
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:15 pm
Languages: Native: English
x 779

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby RyanSmallwood » Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:42 pm

I do like the FSI and DLI courses, but I think for French you have a lot more engaging options and they're probably overkill. For improving your listening comprehension I'd suggest the French in Action video series which is very extensive and well designed.
Last edited by RyanSmallwood on Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
3 x

User avatar
Le Baron
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:14 pm
Location: Koude kikkerland
Languages: English (N), fr, nl, de, eo, Sranantongo,
Maintaining: es, swahili.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18796
x 9386

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:18 pm

FRAnglais1919 wrote:Background: I studied French for about 5 years in the U.S. school system, forgot about it for the next 8, and then picked it back up. I've been "self-studying" for the past year to no avail. My reading comprehension is around early-intermediate level at best (probably between A2 and B1), as is my writing. But speaking and listening are by far the worst. I listened to News in Slow French and One Thing in French a Day podcasts and it's like I've never heard French before. FranceInfo and France Culture were no better—they spoke too fast for me....

This will seem negative, but it is meant to be positive. When a learner says I've done this or that to learn speaking/listening (for any language), it's impossible for those reading to know what actually happened. How the learning was done and what was expected. i.e. how the person is measuring their success/failure. Did you understand nothing at all? Not a single word or any sentences at all? If reading reaches around B1 it means you recognise standard phrases and vocabulary, or you wouldn't be able to read. So the gulf is in recognition of them as spoken. and listening takes time. It all takes time.

Over the course of a year of self study what did you do that came to 'no avail'? A self-study course of any kind? Or just 'reading' and listening to certain things informally? A relatively short course including the core grammar will assist you while reading and listening. Since it is also often grammar (e.g. verb conjugation and use) hindering understanding. Some of the learning is exposure, some of it has to be explicit instruction.

FSI/DLI are intense and large. Don't fall into the trap of projection in thinking:'This is it! I just need to start and do this course and I'll crack it!' The reality might be different, with flagging enthusiasm at points and the possibly built-in sense of failure of being halfway through an large course and then tuning-in to e.g. FranceInfo and still not understanding what they're saying. It may be that you complete the course and still can't follow a film. I've never looked at this course (I've tried the Spanish FSI and found it not to my taste - they were made for classroom tuition for very intense courses). If you can stick with it and you feel it's doing something - along with still reading and listening to progressively more difficult material - then the decision is yours.

Personally I prefer to work stepwise and get through smaller-scale courses so, for me Hugo..then Hugo Advanced or perhaps starting with Assimil. The audio on FSI courses is also dated, a bit stilted and on some bits it is hard to hear. You Tube is a much better source for FIGS audio, as I've found with Spanish. It just requires tenacity to keep going even when you don't understand everything. Using the subs when you need them, looking up words, multiple times. Unfortunately the process is slow for many people, but it does bear fruit over time.

You could put years into learning correct 'book French' and still be somewhat deflated when you're there and hear people speaking, and watch films, listen to informal speech on the radio. It doesn't mean you've 'learned nothing' or can't understand, it means you have the foundation and need to develop sophisticated usage and understanding.
7 x

Lawyer&Mom
Blue Belt
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:08 am
Languages: English (N), German (B2), French (B1)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=7786
x 3767

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:31 pm

The secret to understanding spoken French is just putting in the time. It isn’t hard, it just takes a lot more time than you probably expect. People take different approaches, I recommend mass-input. Pick a TV show that you are familiar with that has a French dub. Preferably one with lots of talking and lots of seasons. (People have watched Buffy, That Seventies Show. I did all 15 season of ER.) Then just start watching. You won’t understand a lot at first. It doesn’t matter. It’s just a TV show. Keep watching. The first 50 hours or so will be rough, but you will have big jumps in comprehension every 50 hours or so. After about 250 hours you can switch to any native TV show and at least be able to follow along. (Visual clues help so much!) Of course you will keep watching and listening. I’m at 550 hours of watching now. I can listen to any native podcast, even with multiple cohosts talking quickly and talking over each other. The problem now isn’t the listening as much as just not knowing all the words. Put the time in and you can do this too!
11 x
Grammaire progressive du français -
niveau debutant
: 60 / 60

Grammaire progressive du francais -
intermédiaire
: 25 / 52

Pimsleur French 1-5
: 3 / 5

FRAnglais1919
White Belt
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:30 am
Languages: French
English (N)
x 45

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby FRAnglais1919 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:53 pm

Le Baron wrote:This will seem negative, but it is meant to be positive. When a learner says I've done this or that to learn speaking/listening (for any language), it's impossible for those reading to know what actually happened. How the learning was done and what was expected. i.e. how the person is measuring their success/failure. Did you understand nothing at all? Not a single word or any sentences at all? If reading reaches around B1 it means you recognise standard phrases and vocabulary, or you wouldn't be able to read. So the gulf is in recognition of them as spoken. and listening takes time. It all takes time.

Over the course of a year of self study what did you do that came to 'no avail'? A self-study course of any kind? Or just 'reading' and listening to certain things informally? A relatively short course including the core grammar will assist you while reading and listening. Since it is also often grammar (e.g. verb conjugation and use) hindering understanding. Some of the learning is exposure, some of it has to be explicit instruction.


Good advice Le Baron. You're right, my self-study is just reading and listening to things informally. I passively read grammar explanations online from various sources, usually LawlessFrench. Let me explain what I mean. I came across this sentence/quote on goal.com/fr and I can understand every word of it without looking up anything:

"Nous devons absolument la gagner. On veut ramener le premier trophée de la saison à la maison, et on doit à la fois le faire pour nous, mais aussi pour tous les supporters qui nous soutiennent toujours. "

This phrase easy to read, and I don't even need to translate it in my mind to know what the speaker is saying. If I heard this spoken, I would get about 80 or 90% (object pronouns still trip me up, so 'la gagner' might make me stop and process a little) Other times it's not so easy, like the following:

"« Cette limitation me conduit à moi-même, là où je ne me retire plus derrière un point de vue objectif que je ne fais que représenter, là où ni moi-même ni l'existence d'autrui ne peut plus devenir objet pour moi », il évoque après bien d'autres ces lieux déserts et sans eau où la pensée arrive à ses confins."

I understood about 60% of what he was saying on the first read, but I struggled a bit. I had to translate French to English in my mind. If I heard this spoken, I could just barely make out what he sayas. Maybe one or two words here and there, but then I'd have to guess when he was saying for the rest of the sentence. Here is the movie I was watching the other day, and I heard/understood just a few words out of the whole clip, but not enough to make out what Pierre Richard is saying. I absolutely need subtitles for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xs9ChuJAJk

So there I am! I thought about drilling myself to death with FSI/DLI b/c it would get me used to French sentence structures and distinguish the various sounds. What do you think?
1 x

User avatar
Le Baron
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:14 pm
Location: Koude kikkerland
Languages: English (N), fr, nl, de, eo, Sranantongo,
Maintaining: es, swahili.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18796
x 9386

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:29 pm

FRAnglais1919 wrote:If I heard this spoken, I could just barely make out what he sayas. Maybe one or two words here and there, but then I'd have to guess when he was saying for the rest of the sentence.

The thing is, people write differently than they speak in normal daily life. The chances of coming across any of that sentence in a real-life situation is practically nil. It would be as if you went about speaking English in the style of written prose. In real speech it's not like that. The sentences are often broken and simplified. It's one thing to listen to a French radio podcast where all the guests talk academically to align with the self-perception of everyone being a philosopher, but this is not how normal people speak. I say that because you indicated the wish to actually live in France.

Of course you have to know how to understand how all sorts of people talk, but on the whole how people talk is not how they write.
FRAnglais1919 wrote:So there I am! I thought about drilling myself to death with FSI/DLI b/c it would get me used to French sentence structures and distinguish the various sounds. What do you think?

Possibly, if you can keep motivated and feel comfortable with that methodology. I just went for a listen to some of the FSI French audio. There are useful things in it, but a lot is not so different than someone doing an English course where the people sound like they're in a 1950s Ealing comedy film.
2 x

User avatar
MorkTheFiddle
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2114
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: North Texas USA
Languages: English (N). Read (only) French and Spanish. Studying Ancient Greek. Studying a bit of Latin. Once studied Old Norse. Dabbled in Catalan, Provençal and Italian.
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 11#p133911
x 4824

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:10 pm

FRAnglais1919 wrote:
So there I am! I thought about drilling myself to death with FSI/DLI b/c it would get me used to French sentence structures and distinguish the various sounds. What do you think?

Some here swear by the Spanish version of this, notably Iguanamon. So I say go for it. If it has you gagging and choking after a while, then quit and go on to something else. :)
3 x
Many things which are false are transmitted from book to book, and gain credit in the world. -- attributed to Samuel Johnson

Cenwalh
Green Belt
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:14 am
Location: UK
Languages: English (N), Spanish (C1), Catalan (B2).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12467
x 848

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby Cenwalh » Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:00 pm

I don't know much about the FSI/DLI courses, but related to where OP mentioned struggling finding things to understand in French, you could check out the YouTube channels French Comprehensible Input, InnerFrench and A Piece of French. All of which make content entirely in French, but it's much more your level of you want a break from trying to parse television and films.
3 x
Double SC films: 200 / 200 (updated 2022-07-28)
Double SC books: 34 / 200 (updated 2022-07-28)

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2353
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14192

Re: Would you recommend FSI/DLI for French?

Postby iguanamon » Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:46 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:
FRAnglais1919 wrote:So there I am! I thought about drilling myself to death with FSI/DLI b/c it would get me used to French sentence structures and distinguish the various sounds. What do you think?

Some here swear by the Spanish version of this, notably Iguanamon. So I say go for it. If it has you gagging and choking after a while, then quit and go on to something else. :)

Well, the course I swear by is DLI. Many Spanish-learners swear by FSI. When I was doing the DLI Portuguese Basic Course, I already had Spanish under my belt at a high level. So, two things there- 1) I had already self-learned a second language; 2) I had learned a similar language.

DLI wasn't the only course I did. I also did Pimsleur. At that time it was only 90 lessons. I also used a Brazilian tutor who spoke no English. I listened to the news with a transcript. I watched an 80 episode, hour long, novela. I read books.

The DLI course(s) is/are the most thorough and complete courses I have ever done. Yes the language is 50-60 years old. The age of the material was not a problem as long as I was getting input from more modern sources, which I was. The useful aspect of the DLI courses is themed content. Each lesson focuses on a concept, either of grammar or vocabulary, or both. The drills are there to consolidate this knowledge.

I used the course as my main course, but I didn't just do DLI. I also did the DLI Haitian Creole Basic Course which was similarly constructed. I downloaded the DLI French Basic Course, which is also in the same fashion and era. If I were to learn French, I would definitely use it in the same way I did when I was learning Portuguese.

The DLI course is most effective when used alongside other more modern sources- media, conversation. What DLI does is give a foundation. What mass input of listening and reading does is put that foundation to work and builds upon it. Check out my link at the bottom of this post in my signature to read about the multi-track approach.
10 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gsbod, guyome, Khayyam and 2 guests