Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

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german2k01
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Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby german2k01 » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:30 pm

Hello Guys,

I have a query with regards to going through a course book by a famous publishing company. Assimil, Klett, and the like. At the end of completing such a course, what do you expect from it in terms of results?

This is my language school located in Dortmund, Germany. A reputed private language school and is also an official test center.
https://www.perfekt-deutsch.de/

They are using this book in conjunction with their own grammar drills book.
https://www.klett-sprachen.de/netzwerk- ... 3126071642

I was able to pass both reading and writing exams aimed at the B1 level with zero preparation. However, the examiner told me to repeat A2 again as he thinks my grammar knowledge was weak. I did not do well in the grammar section of the test. Ironically, I could read and write without the conscious study of German grammar.

In my opinion, It is not a total waste of time at all. I am able to listen to German native speakers who speak clear German. Sometimes I speak a few sentences here and there.

The negative side of going through such a course again is my opinion. The way the coursebook is designed I feel like I am studying it like a subject. I do not know how much this conscious study of grammar gets converted into language acquisition. Each subsequent level costs 500 euros so I have to make a decision whether to continue with further levels. They are claiming to have me achieve a C1 level.

Thanks.
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby leosmith » Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:46 am

What is your purpose for studying German?
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german2k01
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby german2k01 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:12 am

leosmith wrote:What is your purpose for studying German?



Communication. It involves two major skills. Listening and Speaking. This year I will finish my studies and look for a professional job.

After 21 months of work I can apply for permanent residency in Germany, however, I need to have an official certification aimed at the B1 level as part of a requirement.

That's why I am learning German.
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby BeaP » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:31 am

I'd say stick with the course until you pass the exam and then think about your possibilities. If you need to pass a CEFR exam, books like Netzwerk and courses that use CEFR coursebooks are the quickest and easiest way to go. If you feel that you're studying a subject, it's normal, you're studying for an exam.

My experience: Courses are best for teenagers and people in their 20s who still go to school, don't mind the 'subject approach', have learning skills and practice them anyway when studying other subjects (they're not rusty, know what to focus on). Courses are often bad in the case of adults, especially if they are inexperienced or very experienced (not average).

Assimil is an alternative method for adult autodidacts, it's very different from Netzwerk. If you need the exam, I don't recommend using an alternative method as main resource, although I'm sure it can be much more efficient for a lot of adults.

Could you do something better for this price? Not really, maybe you'd benefit more with a private tutor, but that would cost you a lot more money for this number of lessons.

My suggestions:
Create a playlist from the audio material of Netzwerk (A1-B1) and listen to it whenever you can.
Try to be active in the class, 'a sentence here and there' is not enough. You've payed a lot money, you have the right to speak as much as the others and get corrections.
Think about how you can use the book's material in a creative way: translate to English - translate back to German, write down the gist from memory.
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german2k01
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby german2k01 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:31 pm

Try to be active in the class, 'a sentence here and there' is not enough. You've payed a lot money, you have the right to speak as much as the others and get corrections.


Every culture has a different way of doing things. Germans do not like to be interrupted in the middle of it. When they say, do you have any questions, then students ask questions otherwise it is a teacher who is doing most of the stuff or leading the way; it is the same even at the university level. We have two teachers for three days one teacher conducts the class and for the next two days the different teacher.
I am getting a lot of listening practice from teachers. That is really a good part of it. Whatever I spoke, it came from acquired knowledge. When I speak, the whole sentence/idea comes out. Although not every thought comes out naturally. I guess it will get better with time and constant language exposure.

This grammar drilling is helping me with the real immersion that I do outside the class. Reading and Listening. As you said, there is no better option for the price. These teachers are experienced teachers who know how to teach grammar or explain grammar concepts. With online teachers over italki, it is like hit or miss.

I am currently reading a 1000-page biography about Adolf Hitler. I am really understanding a lot.

Nevertheless, each level is like 2 months so I guess I will let it go through till the C1 level. Also, there is a social aspect of attending a formal course and interacting with teachers. Apart from this, I use all my dead time for input-based immersion.

There can be a little bit of boredom factor but I guess I will just go with the flow.
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:05 pm

german2k01 wrote:The way the coursebook is designed I feel like I am studying it like a subject. I do not know how much this conscious study of grammar gets converted into language acquisition. Each subsequent level costs 500 euros so I have to make a decision whether to continue with further levels. They are claiming to have me achieve a C1 level.

It might feel like it's only studying it like a subject, but you studying it on your own and the same thing among others is different. If you tackle some topic in self-study, it's just you in your own head and the book. If you tackle the study in a group setting, you get everyone's thoughts and the corrections. More than that though, there is stuff you're not consciously processing, like speaking patterns and ways people react with one another. I remember being at a language school with a small snack bar and so was getting interactions from people cognisant of the same student needs. Chatting with all the other students there. Also having to go to the various rooms to get forms signed, get a computer room pass etc. It's not 'study' but it's invaluable stuff.

As for the levels, you could probably forget the school by B2, probably at B1+. As you know the base requirement for staying in the EU is B1 and B2 is for applications to university, higher-level jobs. The majority of foreign people working are only at B2/B2+ levels, not C1/C2. Nothing is stopping you from just boning up for and taking perhaps a B2 exam later. Which is a lot less expensive than the school.

There are two things to separate: 1) the official paper to state what the officialdom wants from you, and 2) your personal ability to use and understand German. They are not necessarily one and the same thing. I had no official certificates in French when I applied for a job, so I had to sit a test. It was absurd really because all the verbal preamble between us was in French! This is just officialdom.

If your time at the school kick starts usage and turns passive knowledge into active knowledge, at some point it will have done its job and you can go it on your own.
Last edited by Le Baron on Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby Le Baron » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:11 pm

BeaP wrote:My experience: Courses are best for teenagers and people in their 20s who still go to school, don't mind the 'subject approach', have learning skills and practice them anyway when studying other subjects (they're not rusty, know what to focus on). Courses are often bad in the case of adults, especially if they are inexperienced or very experienced (not average).

I disagree with this to some level. Adult learners on courses, even if they haven't had university experiences, tend to be more balanced and aware of what they want, especially if they have sought out the course. Willing to be guided as well and respond well to structure and throw themselves into it. I've taught adult students in the past, which was slightly more embarrassing for me since they were older than me.
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby german2k01 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:48 pm

If your time at the school kick starts usage and turns passive knowledge into active knowledge, at some point it will have done its job and you can go it on your own.


As per my observation the first three-four classes my subconscious mind was in a sleeping mode. However, with subsequent classes, I am amazed by its ability to construct complex thoughts spontaneously. The environment is stress-free, I pay for my lessons and the teachers are cooperative and do not pass on judgments. An added advantage is that with teachers being present in person even if it is a grammatical point that I have a problem with I can clarify it with them right away. I know why they are using course books because they prepare students for the actual certification that government bodies require from foreigners. In my opinion, classes themselves are not enough they have to be combined with some sort of language immersion which I am doing as an aside

Also, I should not think about costs per se as long as I hang in there and turn passive knowledge into active knowledge within the given timeframe. Therefore, I am aiming for B2 by then hopefully I will have developed some sort of automaticity when it comes to speaking. If time is not a hindrance then I may go for C1 as well.
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Re: Formal Course Books and Your Expectations?

Postby Le Baron » Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:36 pm

german2k01 wrote:In my opinion, classes themselves are not enough they have to be combined with some sort of language immersion which I am doing as an aside.


This should be considered a basic requirement. In the Dutch school I attended very few entered the classes from nothing. Those that had were people who had the misfortune to be illiterate or had low-literacy not due to their own fault. Everyone else had done some form of self-study. I met a Serbian woman there who knew several other languages and was familiar with input work as listening and progressive reading. It's not a coincidence that people like her achieved the better results. The school itself promoted this. They suggested stuff to listen to, to watch and to read. They organised days out where we would only be able to communicate in Dutch with each other and the general public.
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