Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

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Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby ros » Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:20 am

I just got through with my first lesson on first-declension nouns in Ancient Greek, but the description on noun accents and endings was a little lacking. I get the basic pattern: χώρα, χώρας, χώρᾳ, etc.

But what about when the only accent in the word is on the last vowel? For example, in the end-of-chapter vocabulary, I'm given στρατιά, στρατιᾶς. Would other forms use the genitive-form accent too, like στρατιᾶν? And similarly for -η-type nouns, like ἐπιστολή, -ῆς, would it be ἐπιστολῆν for the accusative case?
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:12 pm

From AtticGreek.org, which is the home of the revised Ancient Greek Tutorials by Donald Mastronarde, adjusted to conform to the changes made in the second edition of Introduction to Attic Greek (University of California Press 2013) and to provide additional supplements to that book. Many parts of this site will be helpful, however, to anyone beginning or reviewing the study of ancient Greek with any textbook.

For accents, see this section persistent accents.

There is also Smyth's Grammar 2.12.
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby Querneus » Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:48 pm

You may find it fruitful to look at Wiktionary's appendix on Ancient Greek morphology:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Ancient_Greek_grammar_tables

1st decl. nouns like στρατιά and ἐπιστολή get the circumflex accent only in the genitive and dative, so the answers to your questions for those are στρατιάν and ἐπιστολήν (in the accusative singular).
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby ros » Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:03 am

Thank you both, I get a 404 error on that link to atticgreek.org, but if I just go to the website I'm able to go through the tutorial. The tutorial's explanation of contonation and morae helps a lot, although I guess I have some more memorization to do on recognizing short and long syllables, since it's still pretty unintuitive to me which ones are short and which ones are long.
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:03 pm

ros wrote:I guess I have some more memorization to do on recognizing short and long syllables, since it's still pretty unintuitive to me which ones are short and which ones are long.

A textkit thread confirms your hunch.
Long and short vowels
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby Steve » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 am

ros wrote:I just got through with my first lesson on first-declension nouns in Ancient Greek, but the description on noun accents and endings was a little lacking. I get the basic pattern: χώρα, χώρας, χώρᾳ, etc.

But what about when the only accent in the word is on the last vowel? For example, in the end-of-chapter vocabulary, I'm given στρατιά, στρατιᾶς. Would other forms use the genitive-form accent too, like στρατιᾶν? And similarly for -η-type nouns, like ἐπιστολή, -ῆς, would it be ἐπιστολῆν for the accusative case?


I noticed in your intro post that part of your interest in Greek is church studies including Greek, Hebrew, and Latin. My first foray into ancient Greek was in the early 80's. I started on the typical path of memorizing grammar, paradigm tables, vocabulary lists, etc., and focused on being able to correctly analyze and parse individual words and phrases. I simply didn't know any better. Fast forward about two to three decades, and there I was painfully working my way word by word through a few sentences in an evening, and then having to compared what I did to a translation to make sure I was in the ball park. I realized that at that rate, I'd be lucky to finish a book or two in my lifetime, and that I'd probably never hit the point of picking up a Greek text and enjoying reading it. At that time, I discovered HTLAL and started picking up ideas of alternative methods of language learning.

Most of my progress in Greek came after I picked up NT audio (the Spiros Zhodiates' recordings reading with a modern Greek pronunciation) and followed along with an interlinear. I found that repeatedly listening to a passage while following allowed me to internalize Greek to the point where I could listen and comprehend it as well as read Greek (w/o internlinear) and comprehend it. Later, I started practicing reading using interlinears and parallel texts. Obviously, listening and reading are skills like bike riding. At first, you're avoiding falling off and it's a victory to go up and down the street one time. Later, you get better and better at it. That's the development process of listening and following along. It's about the sounds and text becoming more and more familiar day after day. Textbooks and grammar references then become a means of answering questions and improving one's understanding.

If I had it to do over again, I'd spend about 3/4 of my daily study time doing listening, following along, and reading from the beginning of something like the gospel of John. Basically spending a few days (or whatever it takes) with one passage until it is somewhat familiar, and then move onto the next one, while going back and re-reading and re-listening to previous ones until they are somewhat familiar. As extended sections of text become somewhat familiar, I'd then start to include extended reading using interlinears or parallel texts.

This obviously doesn't address the details of your particular question. But, I've seen a lot of people over the years pour a lot of time into languages like Greek working through a sea of details and ultimately not develop much in the way of reading skills or comprehension. My strong opinion is that repetitive listening and following along should be an important part of daily studies from the beginning.
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby ros » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:37 am

Steve wrote:Most of my progress in Greek came after I picked up NT audio (the Spiros Zhodiates' recordings reading with a modern Greek pronunciation) and followed along with an interlinear.


This sounds like an interesting way to study. Do you recommend/prefer the modern pronunciation over the Erasmian and reconstructed pronunciations, or does it matter?
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby Steve » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:49 pm

ros wrote:
Steve wrote:Most of my progress in Greek came after I picked up NT audio (the Spiros Zhodiates' recordings reading with a modern Greek pronunciation) and followed along with an interlinear.


This sounds like an interesting way to study. Do you recommend/prefer the modern pronunciation over the Erasmian and reconstructed pronunciations, or does it matter?


There are some strong opinions on this topic. My short answer is that it doesn't matter much to me. Anymore... :)

At first, I worried about this quite a bit. Over time, I realized it didn't matter since my ear would adjust to a new narrator and pronunciation after awhile. I think the important thing at first is finding a narrator you like to listen to until listening becomes somewhat comfortable. It usually takes me some time to adapt to a new narrator with a completely different pronunciation. The main thing I liked about native Greek readers using modern pronunciation is that it had the feel of a real language that my brain and ear could latch onto more easily. Too many reconstructions had too much of an artificial feel similar to computer generated speech that I found tedious after a time. The Erasmian ones I found tended to use English phonemes and timings (at least to my ear). Given the decades I'd spent using an Erasmian pronunciation with English accents, phonemes, and timings, it just worked better for me having something clearly non-English in nature. I found that the modern Greek pronunciation (which has many phonemes similar to Spanish) was clearly distinct from English which allowed me to make a clear mental shift when listening. One problem with modern Greek pronunciation is that some vowels have merged in pronunciation over time which makes it impossible to distinguish some words from each other when listening. This was not a serious problem for me since I typically use audio as a means of internalizing the meaning of the language when following along with text and did enough repetition that I knew which word was used.

Ultimately, there is no single proper ancient Greek pronunciation given its variation of geography and millennia of time. It probably had at least as much or likely more variation than English around the world and across centuries. I have no issue with reading Chaucer, Shakespeare, or old English works out loud using any modern accent. Though, if something is poetic, I'd feel some pressure to mold my pronunciation, accents, and syllabification to try to recreate the feel of the original.

Over time, I've adopted a pronunciation that probably never existed. I tend to use tonal accents and timings, koine period vowels, and modern Greek consonants. Modern Greek phonemes are similar to modern Spanish phonemes so I tend to use my imperfect Spanish phonemes when reading out loud. One important caveat is that I don't spend much time around other ancient Greek learners. I'm not sure how my pronunciation would come across in various educational and academic circles where certain standard pronunciations tend to be used. I'm not sure if it would be a refreshing change like a foreigner having a pleasant accent or something very off-putting and strange.
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Re: Accent rules for noun endings in Ancient Greek

Postby vonPeterhof » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:27 pm

Steve wrote:Over time, I've adopted a pronunciation that probably never existed. I tend to use tonal accents and timings, koine period vowels, and modern Greek consonants. Modern Greek phonemes are similar to modern Spanish phonemes so I tend to use my imperfect Spanish phonemes when reading out loud. One important caveat is that I don't spend much time around other ancient Greek learners. I'm not sure how my pronunciation would come across in various educational and academic circles where certain standard pronunciations tend to be used. I'm not sure if it would be a refreshing change like a foreigner having a pleasant accent or something very off-putting and strange.

Your brief description sort of reminds me of the "Lucian pronunciation" promoted and co-developed by Luke Ranieri.
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