thevagrant88 wrote:Scheduled a half hour session on iTalki for 5 bucks. I was 100% overthinking this.
Money talks (and in any language you want on iTalki).
thevagrant88 wrote:Scheduled a half hour session on iTalki for 5 bucks. I was 100% overthinking this.
BeaP wrote:In my mind these topics are kind of related: there's the 'input' group, the 'digital' group, the 'Count von Count in Sesame Street' group, and we all have the same problem.
I also agree with Luke's comment from the other thread that there's a chance that we can find an easier or more enjoyable method, but this chance is extremely small.
Le Baron wrote:How can it be for 'very' advanced learners? To be 'very' advanced surely means you're already producing the language in an advanced way, and not needing to be fed stuff at all. Before that you're an intermediate learner. What's the point of burning away time repeating a load of stuff you already know how to say??
Shadowing is useful into all the interpreter’s active languages, ‘A’ and ‘B’, and can be employed to correct and refine a multitude of interpretation weaknesses – accent, delivery, voice quality, vocal range, emphasis, ‘cleanliness’ of rendition, confidence etc. etc.
What are the steps to be undertaken, and the traps to avoid, for the addition or improvement of a second active language ?
(...)
a) Here are a few useful exercises :
(...)
Spend many hours in the booth shadowing an able and fluent speaker of the target language. Using MP3 files, audio cassettes or CDs, choose speakers with an excellent mastery of their mother tongue, without strong regional accents, and with a gift of oratory which allows full expression of the native cadences of the language. Shadowing initially involves repeating the words of the speaker without modification. This allows the interpreter’s brain and speech organs to reproduce the sounds and rythms of the ‘B’ language without conscious mental effort, and begins to create the ‘physiological memory’ acquired by children speaking their own tongue. This will require many tens of hours of actual speech production.
luke wrote:What I meant to say was, reading and listening and shadowing and making flash cards for some fancy pants book like Cien años de soledad may not be particularly helpful for getting started speaking, but if it's engaging, perhaps you're already accomplishing your goal as well as moving forward.
lingohot wrote:Here's a description of shadowing by a NATO senior interpreter who recommends shadowing for interpreters:Shadowing is useful into all the interpreter’s active languages, ‘A’ and ‘B’, and can be employed to correct and refine a multitude of interpretation weaknesses – accent, delivery, voice quality, vocal range, emphasis, ‘cleanliness’ of rendition, confidence etc. etc.[...]allows the interpreter’s brain and speech organs to reproduce the sounds and rythms of the ‘B’ language without conscious mental effort, and begins to create the ‘physiological memory’ acquired by children speaking their own tongue. This will require many tens of hours of actual speech production.[/i]
lingohot wrote:Personally I think shadowing can be helpful for advanced learners who already have great passive skills as a first step to develop speaking skills. I don't know if it really works/works for everyone/works well/works at all, but I would assume it has a certain effect. At least, it helps to listen to the target language in a very concentrated fashion and to spot any weaknesses in listening comprehension.
Le Baron wrote:lingohot wrote:Here's a description of shadowing by a NATO senior interpreter who recommends shadowing for interpreters:Shadowing is useful into all the interpreter’s active languages, ‘A’ and ‘B’, and can be employed to correct and refine a multitude of interpretation weaknesses – accent, delivery, voice quality, vocal range, emphasis, ‘cleanliness’ of rendition, confidence etc. etc.[...]allows the interpreter’s brain and speech organs to reproduce the sounds and rythms of the ‘B’ language without conscious mental effort, and begins to create the ‘physiological memory’ acquired by children speaking their own tongue. This will require many tens of hours of actual speech production.[/i]
Well this is a relief, he confirmed exactly what I thought it is for (in this or another thread running currently): accent, 'physiological memory', delivery...allows the interpreter’s brain and speech organs to reproduce the sounds.' No links to comprehension and that it is something done without 'mental effort'. Sound acquisition.
lingohot wrote:Personally I think shadowing can be helpful for advanced learners who already have great passive skills as a first step to develop speaking skills. I don't know if it really works/works for everyone/works well/works at all, but I would assume it has a certain effect. At least, it helps to listen to the target language in a very concentrated fashion and to spot any weaknesses in listening comprehension.
Likely for any learners. Who probably ought to read out loud for themselves as soon as possible, at least late beginner. And try to follow sound system examples as 'guided production, at least for basic material. Since if learners are following a vague notion of learning somewhat as a child acquires language, they' ought to know that children make all kinds of vocal attempts long before the words are properly rendered. So these exaggerated 'silent periods' are more to do with adult shame than any theory of production.
lingohot wrote:He actually confirmed exactly what I had written, i.e. that it is an exercise for very advanced learners, which you denied.
Le Baron wrote:So these exaggerated 'silent periods' are more to do with adult shame than any theory of production.
luke wrote:Also, some learners are lucky and their stereotypical accent carries cachet. Think British accent in the U.S.
rdearman wrote:Had to look up cachet. If that is the case why do all villains in America films have a British accent? Or am I the only one who has noticed this particular stereotype?
The most wicked foreign accent of all was British English, according to the study.
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