Picking Yourself Up after Rough Practice Session

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
issemiyaki
Orange Belt
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: USA
Languages: English (N); Spanish (Fluent); French (Fluent); Russian (hoping to reach fluency his year!)
x 327

Re: Picking Yourself Up after Rough Practice Session

Postby issemiyaki » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:33 pm

BeaP wrote:I don't want to repeat the advice you've already got (I totally agree with both), I'd rather draw attention to another aspect.

If you're doing controlled practice of the Uncovered Russian course, and your tutor doesn't understand what you say, why are you so sure that Uncovered Russian is a great course? Maybe it doesn't put enough emphasis on pronunciation.

Also, Olly Richards and your tutor are not helping you, you're giving them money for a service. It's normal to analyse our own shortcomings, but you can't blame everything on yourself. If you're demotivated after a session, maybe it's a good idea to talk about this with the tutor. It's absolutely possible that they will lift your mood with a couple of sentences or give you some practical advice that helps you to improve. Teaching is about trust. You can show your resource to the tutor and maybe they'll come up with the reason why the controlled practice doesn't work. There's a chance that only with a small adjustment things can get better.

Language learning is like a beach vacation only for those who are learning the language in an immersion environment on the beach.


Thanks so much! So true.
0 x

issemiyaki
Orange Belt
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: USA
Languages: English (N); Spanish (Fluent); French (Fluent); Russian (hoping to reach fluency his year!)
x 327

Re: Picking Yourself Up after Rough Practice Session

Postby issemiyaki » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:36 pm

Cenwalh wrote:Did I understand this right? You've been learning Russian for a mere 3 months, had a conversation in Russian, and only "several" times there were comprehension problems?


That's correct. But these are not discussions about the fate of the Russian Empire. Ha! :lol: I was merely practicing sentences like: "It's dangerous to ride a bike when there is a traffic jam."

So, when my tutor speaks to me SLOWLY, yes, I can understand him, if he's using simple sentences.
1 x

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17566

Re: Picking Yourself Up after Rough Practice Session

Postby Cavesa » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:52 pm

issemiyaki wrote:I just heard this voice in my head: “You sound terrible.”

Oh, I know this one! An old friend, tell them I said hi! :-D

Now seriously: yes, we can sometimes hear ourselves underperforming. Yes, it is very unpleasant. But is not the end of the world. It doesn't predict how well you'll do next time.

I had this sinking feeling: “It’s going to take me YEARS to get better.”

Yes and no. Yes, it will take years to get to a very solid level. But you can be a bit better in a week. And then again a bit better the week after that. And so on.

my performance before a live native speaker was subpar.

Aaaaaand here we can clearly see one of the reasons, why I believe practicing speaking with other people asap is overrated and can even be harmful at times.

The native is not your ultimate judge, they don't matter as much as you think they do. Practice is in general good, but don't let it teach you anxiety.

Maybe I’m expecting too much after just 90 days.

Perhaps. One of the things that really improve with time and studying and practice is reliability. It's not just about learning to use more words, more grammar, speak in more situations, understand more % of the content, etc. It is about being able to rely on your skills more on more. Your bad moments becoming overall better, your good moments leaving enough of a margin for added difficulties (like stress or fatigue).

Having a bad performance moment after 90 days is totally normal.

They paint language learning as “fun,” like we’re at the beach enjoying a vacation. But people don’t see the psychological toll that comes with this undertaking.

Who are "they"? Many people paint language learning as torture :-D So, you are still pretty much of an optimist and sunshine here.
Yes, there is psychological toll to any learning. Any test (objective or self imposed). Any failure (no matter what the expectations are). We learn our whole lives to deal with that.

BeaP wrote:If you're doing controlled practice of the Uncovered Russian course, and your tutor doesn't understand what you say, why are you so sure that Uncovered Russian is a great course? Maybe it doesn't put enough emphasis on pronunciation.

Also, Olly Richards and your tutor are not helping you, you're giving them money for a service. It's normal to analyse our own shortcomings, but you can't blame everything on yourself. If you're demotivated after a session, maybe it's a good idea to talk about this with the tutor. It's absolutely possible that they will lift your mood with a couple of sentences or give you some practical advice that helps you to improve. Teaching is about trust. You can show your resource to the tutor and maybe they'll come up with the reason why the controlled practice doesn't work. There's a chance that only with a small adjustment things can get better.

Language learning is like a beach vacation only for those who are learning the language in an immersion environment on the beach.


I agree with BeaP here. Is the tutor also teaching you better pronunciation? Are they making sure you'll be understood next time? If they are not, they are horrible at the job. Which is rather common. Most teachers are bad at pronunciation teaching. I can recommend Speechling for pronunciation training. Both for the visual clue on where you are different, but above all for the paid service, where you get intensive and spot on feedback on pronunciation. I think they have Russian. They are better than anyone else I've ever tried, and the platform doesn't allow them to waste your time on anything else.

Also, I haven't tried the Uncovered courses yet. They might be very good, I don't know. But I find that it often helps to learn grammar more thoroughly. Especially for speaking. So, an extra workbook can sometimes help too. It was a miracle especially for my German (and trust me, that has been no beach vacation for me either!)

issemiyaki wrote:So, when my tutor speaks to me SLOWLY, yes, I can understand him, if he's using simple sentences.


Sounds like a solid listening skill for a beginner 3 months in! Keep listening. Relisten to your course material many times, people underestimate that all the time! And keep listening.
3 x

issemiyaki
Orange Belt
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:02 pm
Location: USA
Languages: English (N); Spanish (Fluent); French (Fluent); Russian (hoping to reach fluency his year!)
x 327

Re: Picking Yourself Up after Rough Practice Session

Postby issemiyaki » Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:07 pm

Thanks so much. I just want to print out all your answers. They truly are my guiding light through this time of uncertainty.

So many wonderful pieces of information to help me weather this storm.

Regarding my tutor: He frustrates me in that he doesn't realize that he speaks too fast. But I have gotten really good at shutting down the lesson until he slows down. He was just ridiculously fast, making absolutely no effort to articulate. Some people truly have to be taught to speak clearly. Particularly when no one has ever challenged them on it. I understand the people speaking at the Duma better than I understand my tutor sometimes. So, if it doesn't get better, I will have to start my search for another tutor. But more importantly, I feel comfortable with him. At this stage that seems to be a big factor. I want to make the mistakes and I need a safe space in which to do that because that is how you improve quickly.

issemiyaki wrote: They paint language learning as “fun,” like we’re at the beach enjoying a vacation. But people don’t see the psychological toll that comes with this undertaking.

cavesa wrote: Who are "they"? Many people paint language learning as torture :-D So, you are still pretty much of an optimist and sunshine here. Yes, there is psychological toll to any learning. Any test (objective or self imposed). Any failure (no matter what the expectations are). We learn our whole lives to deal with that.


Thank you for that.

Also thanks for the Speechling recomendation. I'll give it a look.
3 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cainntear and 2 guests