French C2 in one year

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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby Dragon27 » Wed May 11, 2022 8:55 pm

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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby Le Baron » Wed May 11, 2022 9:15 pm

STT44 wrote:Here's someone who passed JLPT N1 in two years starting at zero. Not quite as dramatic as one year, but still very impressive (plus it's Japanese, immensely more difficult than French).

https://www.sewayou.com/en/blog/how-i-g ... -you-there

To the OP (if he / she ever comes back to this thread), I think I have provided enough examples to show that you most certainly can get the highest level certification in a year if you have the drive, time and the tools. You're starting from B1 while these people started from zero. Don't believe anyone who gives you a flat "It can't be done". It certainly can be done. Whether you can do it is a different matter.

Everyone already knows that there are people are do this. It's been known for years. I know the subject of the thread and I ask myself what is the OP's aim? Is it just to learn French to a high level in a year? Or really to just acquire a particular certificate which says so?

Anyone able to maintain motivation and apply themselves and not go down any cul-de-sacs can prepare for an exam. If you want to tell me however that someone can roll up from nothing and develop the quality of language it takes several (up to 5+) years to develop to use a language like your own language, I say: dream on. Peddling superhero stories helps no-one.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby mokibao » Wed May 11, 2022 9:55 pm

There's a divide between what C2 actually means - exam-wise - and what people think it means. The exams aren't nearly as hard as people make them out to be but you do have to prepare - conversely, trying to waltz in with a confident grasp of the language in no way guarantees you're going to pass. Now we can argue for hours on end about whether passing the C2 means you're really C2, what 'real C2' even means, or even the pertinence of rating people along a scale if you're going to dismiss the exams that were explicitly designed for this scale, but I don't see the point. Questioning metrics is a tired trope - we all know they're flawed, but at least 'exam C2' represents something that's objectively measurable as opposed to the myriad of different impressions people put forward when they argue about their preferred definition of 'fluent'.

Objectively, exam B2 to exam C2 in a year of reasonable prep is very attainable and doesn't require seven hours a day like in reddit success stories. Subjectively, you may not reach someone's standards of fluency after 15 years because you have the wrong blood or still get tripped up by literary archaisms and teenage slang. Whatever drives you forward
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby gsbod » Wed May 11, 2022 10:35 pm

Going from complete beginner to JLPT N1 in a year or two is very impressive (it took me 4 years to get to N2)...but it is NOT comparable to the DALF C2.

JLPT is not a CEFR exam and, crucially, it does not test speaking or writing. It tests listening, reading, and grammar and vocabulary, all through multiple choice questions. As far as I can gather from the experience of other forum members who have sat the DALF C2, the format really couldn't be more different - not only do you have to understand a load of audio and written texts, but you then have to demonstrate your understanding by speaking and writing about them in an appropriate way in your C2 level French.

Since the exams cover very different skillsets, what works for one will not necessarily work for the other...

Also it can be tempting to conflate C1 and C2 as a similar level of mastery. Whilst I think it is hard to measure the difference in comprehension between C1 and C2 (there is a difference, it's just hard to test for), the difference in C1 and C2 speaking ability is, at least to me, obvious and significant.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby BeaP » Thu May 12, 2022 6:02 am

One thing that sometimes doesn't get addressed in these threads is whether or not it's possible to achieve C2 as a self-learner. My impression is that most people who take C2 have been (or are) in an immersion environment: they live in a country where the language is spoken or study philology/teaching at a university. Those who teach themselves to C2 level are extremely rare. (If you take 1-2 Skype lessons a week, you basically teach yourself.) It's much harder to do it alone, and it's almost impossible for someone who is not really interested in languages.

My point is: if you want to reach C2 alone in any time frame, you have to be an experienced, disciplined and hard-working learner. If you want to pass a C2 exam, you also have to do a lot of research. Asking questions on forums is helpful, but it's just the beginning. In a lot of cases this whole thing is not even serious. I think that's what some members want to emphasise. If you're serious about an exam, you familiarise yourself with its structure and ask focused questions about specific things. People seem to be toying with the idea, I wonder how many of them actually sit the exam.

I was happy that zenmonkey pointed to the elephant in the room. It might seem unimportant, but I think it's one of the most basic things. This is not a goal that is achieved as a hobby for most people. You have to be serious about it, you have to put a lot of work into it, and there are no short-cuts. You have to appreciate the help that you get and you have to think about your own takeaway, you have to reflect on things. You need every piece of information, and you need them processed through your own filter. Liking the idea or wanting a certificate that decorates a CV is not enough. You have to be serious about it, you have to be active. C2 knowledge for me is equivalent with a university degree. Cramming data, doing research, making experiments, drawing conclusions, putting them into practice. It requires an academic mindset.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby leosmith » Sat May 14, 2022 5:58 am

STT44 wrote:Example of someone who started learning Japanese from zero and after 8 months passed the JLPT N1 with a perfect score: https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/ ... 85_months/

I studied Korean for, on the average, 7 hours per day for 1 year. At that pace, assuming I could keep it up, I estimate it would take me 2 years to accomplish what that person claims to have done in 6.5 hours per day for 8.5 months. All the other samples that STT44 posted seem, although difficult, plausible.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby einzelne » Sat May 14, 2022 11:37 am

STT44 wrote:Example of someone who started learning Japanese from zero and after 8 months passed the JLPT N1 with a perfect score:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/ ... 85_months/


You are aware that JLPT doesn't test your active skills, aren’t you?
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby Cavesa » Sun May 15, 2022 10:27 am

BeaP wrote:One thing that sometimes doesn't get addressed in these threads is whether or not it's possible to achieve C2 as a self-learner. My impression is that most people who take C2 have been (or are) in an immersion environment: they live in a country where the language is spoken or study philology/teaching at a university. Those who teach themselves to C2 level are extremely rare. (If you take 1-2 Skype lessons a week, you basically teach yourself.) It's much harder to do it alone, and it's almost impossible for someone who is not really interested in languages.

My point is: if you want to reach C2 alone in any time frame, you have to be an experienced, disciplined and hard-working learner. If you want to pass a C2 exam, you also have to do a lot of research. Asking questions on forums is helpful, but it's just the beginning. In a lot of cases this whole thing is not even serious. I think that's what some members want to emphasise. If you're serious about an exam, you familiarise yourself with its structure and ask focused questions about specific things. People seem to be toying with the idea, I wonder how many of them actually sit the exam.

I was happy that zenmonkey pointed to the elephant in the room. It might seem unimportant, but I think it's one of the most basic things. This is not a goal that is achieved as a hobby for most people. You have to be serious about it, you have to put a lot of work into it, and there are no short-cuts. You have to appreciate the help that you get and you have to think about your own takeaway, you have to reflect on things. You need every piece of information, and you need them processed through your own filter. Liking the idea or wanting a certificate that decorates a CV is not enough. You have to be serious about it, you have to be active. C2 knowledge for me is equivalent with a university degree. Cramming data, doing research, making experiments, drawing conclusions, putting them into practice. It requires an academic mindset.


Actually, I got to C2 French mostly by accident and having fun. Nope, I wasn't living in a francophone country. Nor studying it (in it) at university (my Erasmus was after C2 DALF, not before).

You need to be interested yes. But that's nothing wrong. It's not achieved by most hobby learners, that is true. But that's not because of the goal, it's because they are not really trying and there is nothing wrong about that. If we looked only at people seriously trying to do this, I don't think the ratio of successful ones would be that bad.

C2 might be an equivalent of an easy university degree. (In medschool, I'd say it was equivalent of one of the harder exams.) And since everyone and their cat is getting an easy university degree these days, why should C2 be such an exceptional goal? :-D

My main worry concerning the topic discussed in this thread: Within 1 year.

Yes, I got from DELF B2 to DALF C2 in several years. Five years, out of which the first two were basically French-less. Then the next three years included mostly tons of fun with books and tv series. Hundreds of hours. Any specific studying was at the end (including the bit controversial tutoring) and was at most 1% of the time spent on my path from B2 to C2. Oh, and the C2 was a sort of an accident. When I decided to take an exam, I was aiming for C1, but I was told by others including the tutor "but you're C2, why don't you try that?" And so I did.

So, the main issue I see here is not any definition of C2 (it is what it is, hard but not perfection), nor is it self teaching. The issues are:

1.what is the starting point? Where does the learner stand at the beginning of the intensive year? If it is somewhere in between B2 and C1, I think it is possible to study harder than I did (and not as haphazardly) and reach C2 in a year. If it is a rusty B2, closer to B1 or even lower, then I am not that much of an optimist. Any huge gap from the earlier levels will be a problem now, and should be corrected.

2.How much free time does the learner have and is willing to put in? This project would require several hours a day. That's far from impossible, it just depends on your other obligations and needs. A part of the time will need to be put into energy demanding activities, but most of it will be input. For input to work, you need a lot of it. But it is fun and not that demanding in terms of energy.

3.The will to push oneself hard. Much harder than 99,9% of tutors would be capable of (I'd say hiring a tutor is in most cases the first step towards failure of an intensive plan. Vast majority simply has no clue about advanced learners, and has 0 experience with intensive learning, as they have never done it themselves, nor have they taught in such a manner. If you hire someone to profit from some of their knowledge, you need to really teach them what you need, it is sometimes a kind of a battle and not every tutor is accessible to that). Need to find high quality resources and really use them. Tons of input, sure. But also focus on writing, as that's the hardest part of DALF C2. I discussed that elsewhere.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby MaggieMae » Sun May 15, 2022 11:08 am

Le Baron wrote:These things help no-one. They should be prefaced with:
Step one: Give up most other things in your life, because you'll be largely spending it on language learning, day-in, day-out. And depending on how good, organised. focused and motivated you are, this might be a grind until you crash.


This, 100%. And even then it's often not enough. I made it from middle A2 to failing C1 by 2 points in one year by treating it as my full time job (4 hours of language courses a day, then homework and studying afterwards) and being in a country where I was almost 100% immersed. Now I'm looking ahead at the C2 exam and maybe, MAYBE, I'll be able to just pass the exam by the end of the year.

But, as many others have already said, passing the exam is not the same as being fluent. I think in one of those reddit comment threads someone mentioned having C2 certification, but not knowing the words for "booger" or "glitter", which is something most every native 3 year old will know. I have trouble remembering how to say such basic things as, "The dog pooped/peed," without using the closest word I know, which happens to be an extremely offensive word here. Every native toddler can say it, though, with two or three different variations, most likely.

I was also talking with other US emigrants here yesterday about all the colloquial phrases that are untranslateable between the two languages, but you'll never find in a language course. "Slicker than shit" is the only one that comes to my mind at the moment, but it means (loosely, and depending on context) that someone is really good or efficient (or both) at doing something, that someone has just very cleverly tricked someone else, and the speaker wants to show their admiration, or it could mean, fairly literally, that something is extremely slippery and one should exercise caution. Like, you'll NEVER find that on a C2 test or in a language course, but it's something that someone with actual fluency will be able to instinctively understand in all the various forms.
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Re: French C2 in one year

Postby Valddu » Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:35 am

BeaP wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:OP posted their question and hasn't come back.

I've noticed that this happens quite often. I wonder why. Nowadays I'm hesitant to reply, but I usually do it because these threads can be useful for others as well. But sometimes I feel as if we were school kids getting assignments that no-one is really interested in. Maybe they're waiting for an e-mail notification that never comes?



Trust me, lots of people read these threads even when the OP disappears. I’ve read and reread numerous threads in this forum and find lots of value in the discussion.
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