holllow and defective verbs (MSA)

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jimmy
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holllow and defective verbs (MSA)

Postby jimmy » Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:55 pm

can someone explain please, what is the difference between hollow and the defective verbs?
and are there verbs which reformed in past tense but normal verbs in present tense or vice versa?

the list of defective verbs I currently know (but presumably they do not consist of as of below)

بنى
دعا
نسي
بقي
تلا
رضي
لقي
جرى
قسى
رمى


and the list of hollow verbs I currently know is also below:

عاد
قال
زار
قام
عاش
خاف
طار
ساد
صار
غار
سار
نام
باع
جاء
عاد
Last edited by jimmy on Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: holllow and defective verbs

Postby zenmonkey » Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:23 pm

Basically, defective verbs are missing a tense. For example, can in English is defective. You can't say I will can. Defective verbs exist in many languages.

Hollow verbs, in Arabic and Hebrew, have a weak consonant (a w or a y) as their middle root letter.

In Arabic, the middle vowel has to be deleted when the verb is conjugated with the pronouns (هنّ) and (أنتنّ).
The deleted long vowel is replaced by a short vowel.

In Hebrew, the 2nd root letter of a hollow verb is a ו vav or a י yod. These disappear in conjugation.
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Re: holllow and defective verbs

Postby jimmy » Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:57 pm

sorry for not mentioning @zenmonkey, this thread is only for Arabic and specific to MSA,I have now set the thread.
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Re: holllow and defective verbs

Postby Querneus » Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:57 am

jimmy wrote:can someone explain please, what is the difference between hollow and the defective verbs?

zenmonkey wrote:Basically, defective verbs are missing a tense. For example, can in English is defective. You can't say I will can. Defective verbs exist in many languages.

In Arabic grammar, "defective" actually means something very different than usual. It refers to verbs whose third root letter is w or y.

Basically, if the first root letter is w or y, they're "assimilated", if the second one is w or y, they're "hollow", and if the third one is w or y, they're "defective".

Then there's "doubly-weak" verbs like وعى wa3aa 'to perceive, be aware' (root w-3-y) and روى rawaa 'to narrate, recount' (root r-w-y)...

jimmy wrote:and are there verbs which reformed in past tense but normal verbs in present tense or vice versa?

Not really... Both tenses have "fun, interesting" forms whether hollow or defective.
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Re: holllow and defective verbs

Postby zenmonkey » Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:22 am

Querneus wrote:In Arabic grammar, "defective" actually means something very different than usual.


Thank you!
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Re: holllow and defective verbs (MSA)

Postby jimmy » Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:45 am

Querneus much welcome. how are you,I hope you are good.
Thanks for the explanations.
and may I ask one more question:

the resource I read says that both defective and hollow verbs were very much common in especially use.
But it does not say whether they consist of as I provided above.

or in another words, how many such verbs approximately are available (if especially my target for this language is "high") ?

Thanks once again and nice to hear from you.
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Re: holllow and defective verbs (MSA)

Postby jimmy » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:52 am

ah, update:
I have newly (today/just now) learnt that the number of such verbs are almost countless. The resource refers to hans wehr and requests me to check from that resource)

ok.
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