I need your help with the place of "the third time"

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michaelwwww
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:28 am
Languages: Chinese (N), English (Gmat), Greek(Beginer)
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Re: I need your help with the place of "the third time"

Postby michaelwwww » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:59 am

Thank you all for your input! I agree that etymology might helpful but context is the key to unlock the meaning of a word in its context.

It seems to me that "the third time τὸ τρίτον" just means that it was the third time that Jesus said to Peter and did not necessarily mean that Jesus said exactly the same content. The reasons are as the following:

1) John 21:16 uses "πάλιν δεύτερον·" to mean "the second time" or "a second time" but the content Jesus said to Peter this time "ἀγαπᾷς με (Joh 21:16 WHO)" is apparently different from the first time "ἀγαπᾷς με πλέον τούτων (Joh 21:15 WHO)".

2)Luke 23:22 has the similar expression "ὁ δὲ τρίτον εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτούς (Luk 23:22 WHO)" but it seems to mean that it was the third time that Pilate said to them. When I examine the context, Pilate said different words the third time compared to the first time.

3)Matthew 26:44 tells us that Jesus prayed the third time saying the same words "προσηύξατο ἐκ τρίτου τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον εἰπὼν πάλιν (Mat 26:44 BGT)". The author intentionally added "saying the same words" otherwise it seems that we don't know whether Jesus prayed the same words with "the third time" only.

4)Some noted scholars such as Dr. Marvin Vincent,Dr. Richard Trench,Westcott, Plummer and the leading living Koine Greek lexicographer J. A. L. Lee think that ἀγαπάω and φιλέω mean different things here. It seems too easy to let "the third time" to have final say for the meanings of these two words because ἀγαπάω and φιλέω would mean the same thing if "the third time" means that Jesus said exactly the same thing as before.

What do you think? Any comment is welcome. I am a new hand.

Blessings,
Michael
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