V-2 Rule in Norwegian

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Xenops
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V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby Xenops » Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:40 pm

For those that don't know, the V-2 rule is a word order that happens in some Germanic languages (not English): V-2 Rule in Norwegian. Essentially, the verb must always be the second part of the sentence: so if you say "yesterday I made dinner", rather you would say "yesterday made I dinner".

The Duolingo Norwegian course doesn't employ this word order much in the course. In the course The Mystery of Nils, it is used a lot-- not just with clauses, but any piece of additional information it seems:

Image


So my question is: is the inversion still used a lot in proper Norwegian, and the Duolingo course is just wrong? Or does it depend on the register, or some other factor?

Tusen takk. ;)

Edit: Corrected example.
Edit 2: Perhaps I am too critical of the Duolingo Norwegian course, I just wanted expert input before I delve too deeply. And I realize that I need multiple resources, not just this app. :)
Last edited by Xenops on Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby tungemål » Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:57 pm

Xenops wrote:Essentially, the verb must always be the second part of the sentence: so if you say "yesterday I made dinner", rather you would say "yesterday dinner I made".

You mean "yesterday made I dinner" (verb second).

So my question is: is the inversion still used a lot in proper Norwegian, and the Duolingo course is just wrong? Or does it depend on the register, or some other factor?

What do you mean by inversion? The book excerpt is perfectly correct and normal. Duolingo could be wrong, but post the sentence so that we can see.
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Re: V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby Xenops » Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:20 pm

tungemål wrote:
Xenops wrote:Essentially, the verb must always be the second part of the sentence: so if you say "yesterday I made dinner", rather you would say "yesterday dinner I made".

You mean "yesterday made I dinner" (verb second).


Yes, thank you. ;) I corrected my OP.


What do you mean by inversion? The book excerpt is perfectly correct and normal. Duolingo could be wrong, but post the sentence so that we can see.


Here are some examples:

Han vet at vi kommer

Jeg liker at hun vet hvem hun er.

Mannen leser avisen mens han spiser.

Hun vil vite om jeg liker henne.

Hun spiller piano mens hun synger sanger

Kjæresten min er enebarn, mens jeg har fem søsken.

Babyer er veldig søte, spesielt når de sover.


I also realize it could be because I don't understand what a "dependent clause" is. I would expect the verb to change places after the "at" or the "mens".
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Re: V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby tungemål » Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:28 pm

All those sentences are correct. You can't invert the order there.
I don't know the grammatical explanation. Probably someone else here knows.
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Re: V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby tungemål » Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:50 pm

The V2 order rule must be frustrating for learners. If you want to delve into nerdy grammar read the wikipedia article. All I know is that this is something that foreigners usually get wrong, no matter how good their Norwegian is. Good luck :)
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Re: V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby Xenops » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:09 pm

TSS42 wrote:I don't understand. Which particular sentence from the book is a problem? All the sentences I can see in the picture seem to have the same word order as in your example sentences.


It's not the book I'm concerned about, it's the Duolingo sentences. ;) As much as I hear about the V-2 rule, I don't see it as often as I would expect from the Duolingo course.
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Re: V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:19 pm

OK, from a Swedish perspective. First of all, the (first) verb is in 2nd position in all the sentences (even the penultimate one - Kjæresten min is one element). Then there are main clauses and subordinate clauses. Certain conjunctions govern one of them, others govern the other (those are sometimes called subjunctions). This is important when you start adding adverbs like ikke etc.

Now, to the sentences which are all main+sub.

Han vet at vi kommer.
Classic example of an at-sentence. At connects main+sub. Still V2. (Note: If you add ikke to the second half, it has to come before first verb of the subordinate clause - Han vet at vi ikke kommer. But: Han vet ikke at vi kommer.)

Jeg liker at hun vet hvem hun er.
Same here. [Jeg liker] + at + [hun vet hvem hun er]. V2.

Mannen leser avisen mens han spiser.
And again. [Mannen leser avisen] + mens + [han spiser]. V2.

Hun vil vite om jeg liker henne.
And again.

Hun spiller piano mens hun synger sanger
Again.

Kjæresten min er enebarn, mens jeg har fem søsken.
Again.

Babyer er veldig søte, spesielt når de sover.
And again. [Babyer er veldig søte] + spesielt når + [de sover]. V2.

What was the theme of the lesson? It can't have been word order, since the logic is perfect, and there's no trace of ikke placement.
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Re: V-2 Rule in Norwegian

Postby Xenops » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:31 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
What was the theme of the lesson? It can't have been word order, since the logic is perfect, and there's no trace of ikke placement.


Here:
https://www.duolingo.com/skill/nb/Adverbs-1/tips-and-notes

and here:

https://www.duolingo.com/skill/nb/Conjunctions/tips-and-notes
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