How do you begin to listen in your target language?

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Carmody
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How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby Carmody » Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:29 pm

I am a B1 in listening and am curious how do you begin to listen in your target language?

-Do you slow down the speed when listening?
-Do you use subtitles?
-Do you listen to the same material many times at different speeds?
-Do you have it running in the background during the day?
-Do you listen intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time?

Thank you.
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:01 pm

It varies. A short clip (say, lessons from Assimil or LingQ) until I've absorbed the content, a short clip over and over again during the planned study session, a number of clips (in order, or randomly) during the planned study session - or during a walk, a longer clip (say, a podcast or a few chapters from an audiobook) also often during a walk. So, depending on the activity either intensively or extensively.

Sometimes I have shadowed the content (even as a relative beginner in the language).

I don't think I have ever slowed down. Rather the opposite. I have sped up the audio (at least during the most intense LingQ years - some 12 years ago?). (These days, most of the spoken content I watch on Youtube is at 2x speed. But that's rarely in a target language.)
I guess subtitles could also mean text - sometimes I read along at the same time. (LR is one example.)
Running in the background? Never. (Unless you count listening to an interview etc. in Swedish/English while doing something else.)
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby Le Baron » Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:02 pm

Carmody wrote:I am a B1 in listening and am curious how do you begin to listen in your target language?

-Do you slow down the speed when listening?
-Do you use subtitles?
-Do you listen to the same material many times at different speeds?
-Do you have it running in the background during the day?
-Do you listen intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time?

Thank you.

I want to say 'all of the above' or any one of them at one time or another. I prefer just audio for pure listening (rather than audio/visual) so that I can concentrate on listening. Not that audio/visual isn't good it's great, but I see it as something else.

* Slowing down speed: maybe. Perhaps on bits you really can't catch and feel they are important. Otherwise I'd use that sparingly. In general you can just replay it a few times at normal speed to catch it. If you have subs in the TL you can check then run the audio again and it crystallises.

* Subs? Yes, I've used them on videos. I can easily ignore them, so glancing down once or twice to confirm something is useful. Maybe not poring over them.

* Same material many times at different speeds? This is a bit like the first. I wouldn't speed it up (!), but the slowing down is same as answer 1.

* Running in the background during the day? Yes, in earphones. If I've heard it before, say a podcast, I'll let it run again and other things jump out because I'm already familiar with the general shape of what's going on.

* Listening intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time. Well that depends on what else you're doing. I can leave the earbuds in for a few hours while I'm busy, so it's a lot of material. However if I want to listen to something and pick it apart using subs/transcript/looking up words and expressions, I'll do that at some other time. Then listen to it whole again another time in general listening.
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby BeaP » Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:16 pm

I keep French on hold now (B1-B2), but based on my recent experience with Spanish I think when I pick it up I'll do the following:
Textbooks:
CLÉ textbooks: En dialogues series, Communication progressive, Compréhension orale
Do the exercises, listen to the dialogues during the day as many times as I can (until I practically know them by heart). Repeat after the speakers, later try to reproduce the dialogues. Less is more. I don't have to go through all of the books. But the ones that I chose need to be studied in depth.
Youtube/Netflix:
InnerFrench without subtitles, series I like with French subtitles. I've done the vast majority of my Spanish listening with Spanish subtitles, and listening is my strongest skill. (According to DELE mock exams.) I don't think that L2 subtitles do any harm. I've never slowed down a recording and see no reason for trying it. I watch things more than once only if I liked them a lot.
I only do any of these if I can pay attention.
Last edited by BeaP on Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:19 pm

Carmody wrote:I am a B1 in listening and am curious how do you begin to listen in your target language?

-Do you slow down the speed when listening?

I slow down the speed if there is a phrase I didn't understand, or cannot reconcile with the subtitles, and I look up unknown words/phrases.

I only seem to do this with short programmes that I am watching on my computer. With long programmes or things I watch on the TV I rarely look anything up.
-Do you use subtitles?

I use L2 subtitles if they are available.
-Do you listen to the same material many times at different speeds?

1. I there is a phrase I do not understand or cannot reconcile with the subtitles then yes.
2. on my mp3 player I have a number of radio plays/programmes that I have listened to many times, but that's because 1. I like them, and 2. uploading things to the MP3 player is a bit of a faff.
-Do you have it running in the background during the day?
No.
-Do you listen intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time?
Both.

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With German, for some reason I only rarely seem to look up unknown words, or relisten to phrases. I don't know why, but my German is much weaker than my French and I suspect the lack of active effort on my part is a contributary factor.
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby Fortheo » Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:20 pm

Carmody wrote:I am a B1 in listening and am curious how do you begin to listen in your target language?

-Do you slow down the speed when listening?
-Do you use subtitles?
-Do you listen to the same material many times at different speeds?
-Do you have it running in the background during the day?
-Do you listen intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time?

Thank you.


Hey carmody, before I address your questions, I'd like to share a general mindset that I wish I could have adopted sooner in my language journey, specifically in regards to listening. That mindset would be to stay positive and focus on what you do understand and don't become too stressed out over what you do not understand. If you listen to something and only understand 50%, try to think about it as understanding 50% more than you ever did before and that's a good thing. Trust me, if you focus too much on the percent you don't understand, it's easy to defeat yourself and really inhibit your own momentum. Just keep listening. There will be lots of times that you don't understand things, but it's okay, just remind yourself that you're already understanding a lot more than you were in the past, and keep listening.

Now I'll address your questions individually

-Do you slow down the speed when listening?
Personally, I can't say that I've ever done this, but if it helps you, then go for it.

-Do you use subtitles?
I have in the past, but I soon found that it was more of a hinderance than an actual aid. If you are a strong willed person who has the self control to only flip the subtitles on when you absolutely need them, then I suppose it would work out. Unfortunately for me, I soon found that I'd just keep the subtitles on the whole time and soon I wasn't training my listening but my reading instead.

-Do you listen to the same material many times at different speeds?
Short clips under 5 minutes are great for multiple listens and I did notice improvements while re-listening to things, but I didn't alter the speed.

-Do you have it running in the background during the day?
I don't, but i'm horrible at multi-tasking and I generally only focus on one task at a time if I can help it. Again, this is just me, though.

-Do you listen intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time?
Both. I tend to start out listening to something intensively for the first 15 minutes (for me this involves lots of re-winding sometimes to make sure I caught everything, and I'll even shaddow the audio at times), but after about 15 minutes I switch to extensive mode and let the perfectionist in me rest as I just let the audio play and do my best to catch what I can in real time without going back to make sure I heard everything perfectly.


I want to repeat myself because it's so important: just keep listening and keep focusing on the progress that you've already made and not too much on the progress that you still need to make. Good luck.
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby Carmody » Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:57 pm

To:
jeff_lindqvist
Le Baron
BeaP
DaveAgain
Fortheo

Many thanks for the speedy and comprehensive answers. I started today on my 50-100 hr. challenge for my listening input and will definitely apply your suggested guidance to my listening efforts.

I will also try to post the results of my efforts in my log on a monthly basis.

Thanks again.
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby Elsa Maria » Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:39 pm

Subtitles are a last resort just because I get annoyed and confused by the mismatch between subtitles and audio. I’ve only used the subtitles that the streaming service generates - I am sure they are better on download sites but I have never tried that. I probably should give it a try - the only reason I have not is that it always seemed too complicated! I mostly just use stuff with official transcripts and accept ambiguity elsewhere.

Some ideas for finding transcripts:

Learner podcasts
Native newspapers that have audio for selected articles
TV episodes
Speeches by politicians and royalty (obviously only applies to languages with a royal family). A transcript of a speech is often archived on the official website. Also award acceptance speeches often have a transcript.
TED talks
Radio and/or filmed versions of plays (if you can locate a play manuscript)

Admittedly many of these are mononologues rather than dialogue, and are only a step toward watching a debate with speakers interrupting each other and talking over each other.

I never change the speed.
Last edited by Elsa Maria on Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby iguanamon » Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:54 pm

Carmody wrote:I am a B1 in listening and am curious how do you begin to listen in your target language?

-Do you slow down the speed when listening?
No. When I am training listening, I am training to learn natural-speed speech. I can't do that by slowing it down. If I miss something, I can go back over it again, and again, if necessary
-Do you use subtitles?
Yes and no- When training listening, I never watch, or listen, with L1 subs. I try to find audio with a transcript/srt file. There are many ways to use subtitles when training listening. My experience is to have the transcript/srt file at hand. I may read it first then listen. I may read and listen at the same time. I may listen first and then read. There are many ways to switch the routine up and they will all help in the beginning. What won't help is trying to train listening with L1 subs.
If you can find an accurate transcript or L2/L1 subs srt file, you can make a parallel text with them. In this way, if vocabulary is still an issue, you can see a rough equivalent of meaning. You can look up words at your leisure.
Ultimately, you are working towards not needing subs or a transcript at all. When I was training listening with Portuguese, I had neither subs nor a transcript available for the 78 episode novela I was using. I would watch once without taking notes. The next time, I'd take notes with timestamps in my own shorthand. If I was confused I'd pause it, go back over the sentence and try to transcribe it using a blank for the unknown word(s).
At first, this process is tedious, slow and I wondered if I would actually accomplish anything at all. Instead of quitting, I stuck with it. It got easier. Vocabulary and situations repeated. As I worked through the episodes, listening became easier... and easier. At the last quarter of episodes, I had it down.
-Do you listen to the same material many times at different speeds?
No.
-Do you have it running in the background during the day?
If you mean the same audio, no. I may have TL music on in the background, or an online TL radio station.
-Do you listen intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time?
Yes and no, again. The process I have described is intensive. Listening has to be trained. In my experience, course audio isn't enough (and also it's too clear and un-naturally slow) to do that, although it is a good start as a beginner. Listening to random youtube videos with auto-generated subtitles is also not good enough. Fortunately, for major languages, there is plenty of material available with accurate transcripts and/or subtitle files. You don't have to be a computer programmer, either. Subtitles can be found in various places online by searching for series name + language + "srt" files. There are threads for transcripts here on the forum for French. Subtitle srt files can be used as a check to see if your transcribing is correct. If used in advance, they can give an idea of what is to come. There are many, many uses to help train listening.
A series is more useful for training listening than are films- because- there are more episodes involving the same characters. This gives more opportunity to get used to their voices over time. In series, situations repeat. Vocabulary repeats- at least often enough. There's also at least half a chance to make your own transcript with a srt file. A series, especially a novela, but really any popular series, will have episode synopses online which you can read beforehand to have a rough idea of what is going on. For really popular series, like dubbed versions of Game of Thrones; Westworld; Star Trek- there are fandoms in TL discussing multiple aspects of episodes and page-long recaps to read.
Training listening is not easy. It is hard. It takes time. It can take a long time. The first step is to accept that it will be frustrating and then, don't quit. Sounds simple in theory, but it has to be put into practice to gain success. People often don't want to do what is difficult. Training listening is hard. It takes time. It can take months. Longer than many learners may wish to accept, but it is worth the effort, I assure you.

Good luck!
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Re: How do you begin to listen in your target language?

Postby luke » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:23 am

Carmody wrote:I am a B1 in listening and am curious how do you begin to listen in your target language?
-Do you slow down the speed when listening?
-Do you use subtitles?
-Do you listen to the same material many times at different speeds?
-Do you have it running in the background during the day?
-Do you listen intensively for a short time or do you listen extensively for a long time?

Trust your inner voice on these things.

On slowing down or speeding up audio, I do both. Slowing down can help when I'm trying to shadow. Speeding up can help if I find my mind drifting too much.

I do use subtitles at times, especially when they're good. Think "comprehensible" input. Subtitles can help.

Same material at different speeds? Yes, but mainly because I'm studying the material intensively and extensively and over a long period of time.

As far as in the background listening, I generally only find this useful if I've already studied the recording.

For me, "short time" would be a minute or a few minutes, and I do that. Long time would be for 30 minutes or an hour or more and I do that too. "Short time" is I'm trying to learn something, not so much working on listening skills, but it can be taking advantage of a few minutes. "Long time" is often accompanied by a walk, or listen-reading, or watching videos.

At B1 level in listening, I've found repeated listening to be very helpful. There are many, many, many ways to do that.

If you find an audiobook that you like with a narrator telling a fascinating story, you can use it as a tool for your listening and learning. If you haven't found one, just keep looking and listening. For French, there are definitely good narrators and good books and good content.

The gentle approach that Fortheo was talking about is very important. March to your own drummer.
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