English Questions

[allf100]

Q5: I've known 'Lazarus' was figure in the Bible, and was brought back to life by Jesus from my search on the Internet. What is the purpose of mentioning Lazarus here?

It's the different Lazarus.

edit:
Here's an interesting summary of this specific part of the narration:
Melville, thou reasonest well.

Hello Dragon27,

Thank you very much for your help. The summary is very helpful.

I'm unable to access to the first link. Wikipedia has been being blocked from the mainland of China.

[tungemål]

I like your English thread, because I also learn a lot from it.

I'm unable to access to the first link. Wikipedia has been being blocked from the mainland of China.

"The rich man and Lazarus (also called the parable of Dives and Lazarus)[a] is a parable of Jesus from the 16th chapter of the Gospel of Luke.[5]"
https://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Luke% ... rsion=nrsv

Q6: I think it is very necessary for me to read through the Bible in order to understand Western literatures, classic music. Do you think so?

Interesting question.
That might be true, however I think very few today have actually read through the Bible. But in the 19th century, when Moby Dick was written, many of these stories were probably more well known than they are today. That makes the literature sometimes difficult for us to read today. Christianity permeates so much of Western history so you should probably have a good understanding of the religion to understand history, literature and classical music, but you might not need to read the whole bible. I don't consider myself Christian, but it might be hard for us Westerners to realise how much of our Christian upbringing we take for granted. When I was in school we learned the stories from the Bible, I've attended mass in church many times from since I was a child and I know how a christian ceremony is structured, and even if I don't attend church now I'm there sometimes for special ceremonies, but more often for concerts.

Classical music is linked to the church, in the earliest time directly, and after it 'freed' itself from the church it still often took inspiration from Christian texts (like the Requiem sequence). Bach wrote music to 'the glory of God', however in my opinion we can today enjoy the art without being religious or having read the Bible. Classical music also has references to other literature than the Bible (of course). Off the top of my head the works of Goethe, especially "Faust", and Hoffmann's stories (both 19th century), and Dante's 'Divine Comedy' (14th century), and of course Shakespeare.

[allf100]

I like your English thread, because I also learn a lot from it.
...

Hello tungemål,

Thank you very much for your input and help.

Have a great one!

[tungemål]

Regarding the question of knowing the Bible to be able to read literature:
Maybe someone should compile and publish "Stories from the Bible You Need to Know to be Able to Read Classic Literature". I suppose we can regard the Bible as a loose collection of stories and parables. I wonder how many of those stories were commonly known in the 19th century. 10? 20? 100?

[jeff_lindqvist]

Then we have idioms that come from the Bible:
https://city.org.nz/blog/eo-bible-20181101
https://www.worldhistory.org/article/19 ... metaphors/
https://www.christianityeveryday.com/60 ... the-bible/

(Maybe there are some duplicates...)

[MorkTheFiddle]

Q6: I think it is very necessary for me to read through the Bible in order to understand Western literatures, classic music. Do you think so?

Interesting question.
That might be true, however I think very few today have actually read through the Bible. But in the 19th century, when Moby Dick was written, many of these stories were probably more well known than they are today. That makes the literature sometimes difficult for us to read today. Christianity permeates so much of Western history so you should probably have a good understanding of the religion to understand history, literature and classical music, but you might not need to read the whole bible. I don't consider myself Christian, but it might be hard for us Westerners to realise how much of our Christian upbringing we take for granted. When I was in school we learned the stories from the Bible, I've attended mass in church many times from since I was a child and I know how a christian ceremony is structured, and even if I don't attend church now I'm there sometimes for special ceremonies, but more often for concerts.

This is very well said, tungemål. The influence of the Bible extends into the 20th century, too, notably in the fiction of William Faulkner, whose works often amalgamate Christian and classical Greek and Latin imagery. A couple titles of his work show the influence, too: ¨Go Down, Moses" and Absalom, Absalom. Moses probably needs no explanation, but Absalom was a son of King David who died in a rebellion against his father. Disclaimer: I have read a lot of Faulkner, but I am no expert about his novels and stories.

[allf100]

Hi tungemål, jeff_lindqvist, MorkTheFiddle,

Thank you very much for your input and help!

tungemål and jeff_lindqvist, I'm sorry to reply late. I didn't intend to ignore your answers previously because there were no notifications. And I didn't notice until MorkTheFiddle replied to me.

Have a good one!

[MaggieMae]

Just to let you know, as a native English speaker myself, I find such novels to be absolute beasts at even the best of times. If you're able to manage Moby Dick, you're doing worlds better than most native speakers. Keep up the good work!

Lots of English literature tends to reference both bible stories and Greco-Roman mythology. I would suggest perhaps reading a children's bible stories book and Edith Hamilton's "Mythology". The most often used references would tend to be in one of those.

And in regards to the accent shadow, you might want to be careful with a southern accent like that one. I would definitely go for something more standard, like Kraut suggested. Outside of the American South, many people think the people who speak that way are unintelligent and/or uncultured, so if you learn to speak that way, you might run into problems with prejudice. Just a fair warning.

[lavengro]

Q6: I think it is very necessary for me to read through the Bible in order to understand Western literatures, classic music. Do you think so?

Interesting question.
That might be true, however I think very few today have actually read through the Bible. But in the 19th century, when Moby Dick was written, many of these stories were probably more well known than they are today. That makes the literature sometimes difficult for us to read today. Christianity permeates so much of Western history so you should probably have a good understanding of the religion to understand history, literature and classical music, but you might not need to read the whole bible. I don't consider myself Christian, but it might be hard for us Westerners to realise how much of our Christian upbringing we take for granted. When I was in school we learned the stories from the Bible, I've attended mass in church many times from since I was a child and I know how a christian ceremony is structured, and even if I don't attend church now I'm there sometimes for special ceremonies, but more often for concerts.

This is very well said, tungemål. The influence of the Bible extends into the 20th century, too, notably in the fiction of William Faulkner, whose works often amalgamate Christian and classical Greek and Latin imagery. A couple titles of his work show the influence, too: ¨Go Down, Moses" and Absalom, Absalom. Moses probably needs no explanation, but Absalom was a son of King David who died in a rebellion against his father. Disclaimer: I have read a lot of Faulkner, but I am no expert about his novels and stories.

I do not think it necessary to have read the Bible to enjoy English literature, but in my view, having knowledge of the Bible would undoubtedly broaden one's understanding and appreciation of much of English literature, including some unexpected connections (looking at you here Ray Bradbury). I would suggest that if one were to read the Bible solely from the perspective of literature, definitely go with the King James Version (1611) for its amazing language rather than a more modern version.

[allf100]

Just to let you know, as a native English speaker myself,...

Thank you very much for your advice which is helpful.

I'm still trudging through Moby Dick. Literature is the crown of a language which stands the test of time. I'd like to dabble in and learn to appreciate them.

No, when I go to sea, I go as a simple sailor, right before the mast, plumb down into the forecastle, aloft there to the royal masthead. True, they rather order me about some, and make me jump from spar to spar, like agrasshopper in a May meadow. And at first, this sort of thing is unpleasant enough. ...

What of it, if some old hunks of a sea-captain orders me to get a broom and sweep down the decks? What does that indignity amount to, weighed, I mean, in the scales of the New Testament? Do you think the archangel Gabriel thinks anything the less of me, because I promptly and respectfully obey that old hunks in that particular instance? Who aint a slave?

I'm really touched by the words in blue, especially in red. I can related. I really appreciate the stoicism and fortitude of Ishmael who is the narrator.

Though it was written more than one hundred years ago and the story happened in the US, I see the similarity for (many) employees in workplace in China today.