L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

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velive
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L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby velive » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:25 pm

Hi everyone,

I have been learning Italian using L'italiano secondo il metodo natura. My ultimate learning goal is to be abl to read actual books in Italian, so what I am chiefly trying to achieve is excellent reading knowledge.

I have had a few Italian classes in the past and did not come to the book as a total beginner so I found the stories of the first chapters fairly easy to follow and felt I had a good grasp of the grammar being introduced.

However, once the book transitions to a new story, about the Vespucci family, I found there was a sharp rise in difficulty for which I feel the book did not prepare me. I am still pushing through these stories but it is taking me a much longer time, and I need to look up many words along the way because I am not getting enough information from the pictures in the margin.

Right now I am about half way through the book but because it is taking me so long to get through each chapter I'm considering stopping with this book for the time being and reading easier material to consolidate my skills.

Could anyone recommend a book that might be a good transition to give me more knowledge of the language before I continue with the Vespucci stories?

I would prefer another book that uses the natural method, but am open to any suggestions, particularly if you think the natural method approach by itself is not likely to succeed!

Thanks for your help.
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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby BeaP » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:27 am

I'm not familiar with the natural method and the book you're using, but I've had the same experience with other books, especially when I was a false beginner in a language. I think it's totally normal that the progression slows down and the number of new words rises. Moreover, at this stage there are a lot of words that you don't consider essential or don't turn up so frequently, so it's much harder to remember them. My advice would be: don't stop. There are learners who stick with beginner materials for too long, and I don't think it helps them. Rather split your time, continue with your book and do something else as well: read graded readers, watch TV shows with Italian subtitles, watch youtube channels (Italian with Lucrezia, Learnamo, Podcast Italiano). Reading requires vocabulary knowledge, which you can get from these resources as well. If you are looking for book recommendations: I especially like Un nuovo giorno in Italia. It's a traditional monolingual textbook, but it's based on a narrative that is interesting (at least for me). I have a rusty B1, and I'm trying to revive it at the moment with this book. So far, so good. The other book I've found interesting is Il Balboni. It's written by a very experienced professor who tried to mix the old and the new methods, and picked the things he saw effective from them. The aim of each exercise is made clear in the book, I find it a real step up from the usual stuff. You can find sample pages from both books online if you're interested. I'm reading a Montalbano mystery (La voce del violino), and I can recommend that as well, because it's quite easy. If you feel that with the natural method you're getting closer to your goal, it's a good method for you, don't drop it totally, just because it got harder.
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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby daegga » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:12 am

I use Assimil L'Italien alongside.

But some general remarks to the Nature Method:
  • Try not to look up vocabulary, at least not at the first read of a chapter. Stop and think about what the meaning could be given the context.
  • Don't ignore the power of re-reads. You can read a chapter several times before moving on. Or go back a few chapters and start over there once you hit a wall. It will be easier the second time round.

Keep in mind that the original approach was to learn 1 chapter per week perfectly and only then move on to the next. Even if you were faster than that you were supposed to wait until next week for the content to sink in before you continue. So if you don't adhere to this slow pace (I don't), you have to accept that you don't get some of the words along the road and once they accumulate, you have to go back and try again.
By the way, this methods is supposed to teach you 5000 words. Even if it takes you 50 weeks, that's still not that bad a pace. When I learned languages the traditional way (textbook + course at university), I learned about 3000 words in the first 2 semesters in a closely-related language.
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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby einzelne » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:06 pm

Il metodo natura is good but sometimes it can be very boring, since their guiding principle is grammar not engaging narrative. (I dabble with LLPSI, organized in the same manner, and although it's a very wise pedagogical approach, sometimes it's still damn boring!)

And you're supposed to repeat them now and then. Since they don't have audio, it might be challenging (now you can find the computer generated audio on YouTube).

I never could understood why people are so obsessed with monolignual explanations. So, when I start a new language, I always use bilingual books. I don't want to waste my time playing guessing guessing games (I know there will be plenty of opportunity for me once I start reading unadapted books) or looking up words in a dictionary. Assimil sounds like a nice addition (although, I think, in the end you want something more fundamental because Italian grammar is not that easy as people tend to claim).

Find a bunch of textbooks in your native language, play with each one of them and see which one works best for you.

Read adapted books. There are tons of them. A lot of them have audio which is good for reviewing. Actually, Italian is the only language I really enjoyed reading adapted books.

But remember, there is still quite a jump when you move from adapted to unadapted materials, so don't expect miracles.

PS. I didn't see the languages you listed on your profile while writing my reply, so I guess, given your experience, all my suggestions are nothing new to you.
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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby lusan » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:45 pm

einzelne wrote:PS. I didn't see the languages you listed on your profile while writing my reply, so I guess, given your experience, all my suggestions are nothing new to you.


My thoughts too. But just in case, if I were doing it again, my order would be:

1. Easy readers - Intensive reading/read aloud - Ebook/kindle
2. Adapted books - Intensive reading/read aloud E-book/kindle
3. Native books - Extensive reading - Ebook + paper
4. Whatever - Extensive reading - As pleased

1,2,3 found in Am....com and the like internet bookstores.

Currently, I am a level 3 for Italian.
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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby velive » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:06 pm

Thanks to everyone who replied.


You all had valuable suggestions I know I will benefit from. What a great forum!

I should mention now that while going through the Natural Method book I also read through a book called "Italian Short Stories for Beginners" - this appears to be part of a series of books made by one guy for language learners, then translated into multiple language, so it's a little generic from that point of view, and the material would become repetitive to someone who wanted to use this material for multiple languages, but if nothing else the stories are kind of fun. And the thing is I found the stories overall easier to read then I am finding the Vespucci section! Partly this may be because I'm reading with my kindle and can simply tap to look up vocabulary I do not know. But also, grammatically, these stories seem to be less challenging.

BeaP, I think you are making an important point when you say: "There are learners who stick with beginner materials for too long, and I don't think it helps them." This has alerted to me to one of my own tendencies which I think may be holding me back. I learned Latin by a rote method in my early 20's and, although it wasn't perfect, I am amazed at the fluency I attained in reading - I think partly simply because I had done the disagreeable work of committing so many paradigms to memory. But then I did not practice for a long time. I kept trying to come back to Latin at different times and have always had the same experience: the easy stuff is way too easy, but I reach a point where deciphering the text becomes so difficult for me, I give up and go back to easier material. Because of this I think I have not attained the Latin knowledge I should have by now. I was also going through Familia Romana recently and got so bogged down by the time I hit Chap XXX that I gave up. Now you have inspired me to get back to it!

Daegga, you have some background knowledge on the way the method was meant to be used which I was not familiar with, so thanks for sharing it. I will implement your suggestions. I know I should be re-reading chapters and really getting a solid understanding of everything before moving on, I have thought about this, but I have a hard time getting myself to do it. I always want to move on to new material, though it would probably serve me better to reread a section until comprehension is immediate and natural.

Einzelne, when you say you are supposed to repeat them now and then what do you mean? Do you have more details? Also, could you tell me which adapted books you enjoyed reading in Italian? Maybe I can hunt them down. It was nice to see you mention LLPSI, since I had just recently given up on the book, and now think I had better return and keep going - as you already learned from what I wrote above.

Lusan, thanks for sharing the stages you would use. If you also have any books in particular you like for these purposes, I'd love to hear about them.

Thanks again to all.
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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby einzelne » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:57 am

velive wrote:Einzelne, when you say you are supposed to repeat them now and then what do you mean? Do you have more details? Also, could you tell me which adapted books you enjoyed reading in Italian? Maybe I can hunt them down. It was nice to see you mention LLPSI, since I had just recently given up on the book, and now think I had better return and keep going - as you already learned from what I wrote above.


Well, no matter how great a textbook is, you need to repeat your material regularly. How regularly? I honestly don't know. It really depends on your personality.

That's why I prefer textbooks with audio recordings, so I can naturally repeat texts in my 'dead' time. That's why Assimil is such a great tool in the beginning.
Re L'italiano secondo il metodo natura: If I were you, I would simply started highlighting new words in each chapter and adding translations on the margin. Then, before starting a new chapter, you would review the words from previous lessons.

As for adapted books, I don't remember exactly but I think it was a Italiano Facile series. I loved its giallo overtones, with unscrupulous characters, weird endings and some other crazy stuff. Nothing special, of course, but it was rather surprising since adapted books are usually are bland and boring as hell. But, again, the level of the series was pretty basic.
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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby BeaP » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:05 am

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Re: L'italiano secondo il metodo natura

Postby Lawyer&Mom » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:54 am

I remember someone using the Latin book who would start again from the beginning every time he hit a wall. That’s one way to build in review!

My best advice would be to 1) embrace ambiguity, don’t try to understand everything perfectly 2) read something you actually want to read, which might be an entirely different Italian book altogether. I’ve read about 4,000 pages in French and now I find reading the French Natural method textbook perfectly straightforward. Why am I reading it? I’m trying to actually learn grammar and not just reading skills. How did I read all that French without knowing grammar? One slow page at a time, all extensive reading, hardly ever looking anything up. I had Assimil as a foundation and then I just started reading. Perhaps an Italian Goosebumps book would be more compelling than the textbook.
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