SRS at Intermediate Level

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Do you use SRS software as a learning tool at the Intermediate level?

Yes - it's indispensable (must have)
16
39%
Some - targeted at specifics (self created cards)
17
41%
Some - generic decks (created by someone else, even if you edit some cards)
1
2%
No - I have better approaches
7
17%
 
Total votes: 41

Dragon27
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby Dragon27 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:14 am

AllSubNoDub wrote:I would wager a bet that those who are against SRS altogether have not tried to learn a logographic language, have tried and failed, or have only reached an extremely basic reading level at most.

I'll start hacking into Chinese in about a year or two (or three) and I'm pathologically allergic to SRS*, wish me luck!

* in the sense of software, or deliberate systematic repetition
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Le Baron
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby Le Baron » Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:34 pm

With SRS (as with so many things) there seem to be those who swear by its efficacy and others who think it is not that relevant to their learning. I'd be interested to see any evidence as to direct outcomes (though I don't think there is any and I also don't think it's too important).

The thing is this: we already know from listening input that to get things inside your head, whether it is grammar, words or phrases, you need to see, hear and use them a lot... a LOT. To be surprised by them and respond accordingly. SRS does this.

Knowing this I'm happy to use this tool with limited sets of cards. I have ones called: "common collocations"(1,2,3...) and they have about 20-30 cards each. Then also the 500-verbs cards (some with extra info like if the verbs use specific modal verbs). There's no way I'm going to be building up things like 5000 word card sets, which I might end up not looking at for some time and they become unwieldy.

If I had some method for discovering which troublesome words I would most likely encounter in the future for any given situation, I could load these in the SRS and just have at them. An unlikely state of affairs. Consequently there is going to be some waste, this is how it is.
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AllSubNoDub
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby AllSubNoDub » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:23 pm

Dragon27 wrote:
AllSubNoDub wrote:I would wager a bet that those who are against SRS altogether have not tried to learn a logographic language, have tried and failed, or have only reached an extremely basic reading level at most.

I'll start hacking into Chinese in about a year or two (or three) and I'm pathologically allergic to SRS*, wish me luck!

* in the sense of software, or deliberate systematic repetition

Godspeed my friend. If you are able to overcome the Great Wall of scribbles and read novels within a few years of studying, you will have my lifelong respect!
3 x

german2k01
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby german2k01 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:32 pm

With SRS (as with so many things) there seem to be those who swear by its efficacy and others who think it is not that relevant to their learning. I'd be interested to see any evidence as to direct outcomes (though I don't think there is any and I also don't think it's too important).


My personal experience. It sharpens my ability to notice the same words when reading or listening.

Another experience by the creator of Antimoon.


Understand books, websites, movies, TV shows etc. With your growing vocabulary, reading and listening to English will become more and more pleasant. You will notice words from your SRS everywhere — in books, movies, videogames, etc. Whenever you see a word that you have added to your SRS, you will feel good because you will have proof that you’re making progress.


Improve your grammar. Example sentences in SRS items are very effective input because you see them again and again. After some time, you will get used to the grammar structures in example sentences. They will become natural for you. In addition to example sentences, you can add special items which test your grammar knowledge.


https://www.antimoon.com/how/srs-intro.htm
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gsbod
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby gsbod » Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:02 pm

I've thought long and hard about how best to reply to this question. SRS is a bit like marmite, right? Some people love it, some people hate it. As for me, I think marmite's ok but I wouldn't want to eat it on my toast all the time... (wonder how many non-Brits get this cultural reference?)

Anyway, I discovered Anki in the late 00s when I was learning Japanese, which is the first time I really tried to self study a language. For a while it seemed like the answer to all my problems. In particular, I remember when studying A level French at high school we were encouraged to write down unknown vocabulary during the lessons, but having filled up notebooks with all these unknown words, at the time I just didn't get how to turn them into known words. Drilling with an SRS system seemed to solve this problem quite nicely. But then I used it, overused it and abused it and in doing so, I suppose I discovered its limitations.

SRS is just a tool. For some tasks, it can be a useful tool, but it depends on the nature of the task, the nature of yourself as a learner, and the way that you use the tool. Repetition, quizzes and feedback all help with the task of memorisation, and this is where an SRS system is useful. In particular, I find it is useful to make up deficiencies in courses that do not have sufficient repetition, quizzes, and/or feedback, or for aspects of the language which are less "sticky". It's also quite useful if your lifestyle means that you can't sit down for a proper study session every day, but you are able to do so a couple of days a week, as you'll only need a few minutes per day to keep things fresh using SRS in between your study sessions.

Where it becomes less useful, or even detrimental, I think is due to the fact that you can allow it to grow into a monster. The temptation can be do try and put everything into SRS and before you know it, your study sessions turn into data entry and processing sessions and you spend too much time reviewing your cards and not enough time doing all the other important things you need to do to learn a language. This becomes extra detrimental when you find yourself unable to use the things you've been successfully drilling in SRS, because your brain is used to coming up with the answer when prompted by your digital flashcard, but not when prompted by a relevant situation in real life (yes, this has happened to me).

To take it back to something positive, where SRS has actually been useful to me at the intermediate level:
  • Learning how to read kanji words (I honestly don't think I could have done it without SRS)
  • Learning noun gender and plural forms and verbs with the correct preposition and/or case in German

For me, successful use of SRS depends on a few parameters:
  • Always make my own decks, so the material is relevant to me
  • Data entry needs to be as quick and easy as possible - if it takes more than a couple of seconds to make a new card, it's not worth the time
  • The time required to review the decks needs to be no more than around 10 minutes a day - more than this and it's not worth the time
  • Delete the decks after a few months - if you've not memorised a word after this time, you probably don't need it
  • Stick to a daily new card rate of 10 per day if it's one way, or 20 per day if it's two way - if for some reason I need to learn more stuff more quickly, SRS is not the right tool. Good old fashioned word lists are probably more appropriate where speed and volume is more important than long term retention rates.

And remember - SRS is a tool, not a lifestyle!
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