SRS at Intermediate Level

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!

Do you use SRS software as a learning tool at the Intermediate level?

Yes - it's indispensable (must have)
16
39%
Some - targeted at specifics (self created cards)
17
41%
Some - generic decks (created by someone else, even if you edit some cards)
1
2%
No - I have better approaches
7
17%
 
Total votes: 41

User avatar
jeff_lindqvist
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:52 pm
Languages: sv, en
de, es
ga, eo
---
fi, yue, ro, tp, cy, kw, pt, sk
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2773
x 10462

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:34 pm

Le Baron wrote:On the question of being in the country of the TL: the language very often doesn't come to you in the way you need or want; you have to go to it. It's up to you to make conversation with people, to initiate it. One of the grim facts of life is that people generally only talk to other people they don't know when they want something. In a situation of work you tend to be in the same boat and so the opportunity for equal casual conversation is higher.

In general most vocabulary past ordinary discourse is indeed gleaned from books, TV/films, listening to other people give talks etc. However base level speaking fluency is cemented with a much lower general vocabulary and the entire thing is training of a reflex action, not a memorisation exercise.

I think SRS is good at any stage. In fact I can't fathom the arguments for/against certain stages because they seem not to make any sense to me. You need to learn words and if SRS makes you learn words then you tailor it to your needs at the given level.


This makes sense. In the hypothetical scenario that I lived in a country of the TL, I might use SRS if my level was low and/or I had already started using it before moving there. But if I were to live in a country where English/German/Spanish were spoken, I'd never use SRS. I can already read comfortably in them.
1 x
Leabhair/Greannáin léite as Gaeilge: 9 / 18
Ar an seastán oíche: Oileán an Órchiste
Duolingo - finished trees: sp/ga/de/fr/pt/it
Finnish with extra pain : 100 / 100

Llorg Blog - Wiki - Discord

User avatar
Ogrim
Brown Belt
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:29 am
Location: Alsace, France
Languages: Norwegian (N) English (C2), French (C2), Spanish (C2), German (B2), Romansh (B2), Italian (B2), Catalan (B2), Russian (B1), Latin (B2), Dutch (B1), Croatian (A2), Arabic (on hold), Ancient Greek (learning), Romanian (on hold)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=873
x 4169

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby Ogrim » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:57 pm

I answered NO, because I never use SRS and I have never done. I learnt four languages before Internet was a thing, and I drilled vocabulary by making wordlists, copying sentences, verb conjugation tables etc. This doesn't mean that my method is better or more efficient, I can see why SRS appeals to people, but it has never worked for me. I have tried several of the apps that offer SRS, but I much prefer sitting down writing wordlists by hand.

The only "SRS" I use is the possibility my Kindle gives me to review words I have highlighted in books I read. You can get the words at lists or as flip cards, and you can choose all words regardless of language, or words from a specific book. This I find useful to some extent, but I still tend to copy most of those words by hand in a wordlist if I really want to be sure that I want to learn them well.
3 x
Ich grolle nicht

User avatar
einzelne
Blue Belt
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:33 pm
Languages: Russan (N), English (Working knowledge), French (Reading), German (Reading), Italian (Reading on Kindle)
x 2882

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby einzelne » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:02 pm

german2k01 wrote:May I know how many words did you memorize in Anki when you had already reached a higher level in English? Did you actually benefit more from this memorization activity vs extensive reading? What if you did more extensive reading?


I never used Anki becasue, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't stick to the routine. I prefer to rotate the same list of words for a week if I'm in the mood and them ditch it for a time being and then, may be, go back to it in a month or so. I've never been super strict about it. And I don't log all these activities, so it's hard to tell how many words in total. But I guess around several thousand. But it's all about passive vocabulary.
2 x

german2k01
Green Belt
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:16 pm
Location: Germany
Languages: English, Urdu, and German
x 573

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby german2k01 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:05 pm

I answered NO, because I never use SRS and I have never done. I learnt four languages before Internet was a thing, and I drilled vocabulary by making wordlists, copying sentences, verb conjugation tables etc.


Yes, As per his own assessment, Steve is speaking 20 languages and he also never uses SRS. The term "learning" a language can vary from learner to learner.

How do you review those wordlists? Just on the lighter side, have you bought an extra space in your room just for stacking those vocabulary notebooks in it?
1 x

german2k01
Green Belt
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:16 pm
Location: Germany
Languages: English, Urdu, and German
x 573

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby german2k01 » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:12 pm

I never used Anki becasue, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't stick to the routine. I prefer to rotate the same list of words for a week if I'm in the mood and them ditch it for a time being and then, may be, go back to it in a month or so. I've never been super strict about it. And I don't log all these activities, so it's hard to tell how many words in total. But I guess around several thousand. But it's all about passive vocabulary.


I see. It is more likely done at a whim I suppose. Several thousand is still a big number. But how do you actually know you still retain/remember them?

With SRS software you exactly know whether you still remember the meaning of a word or not then grade it accordingly. It is a huge saver of mental energy. Then there is an option of flexibility; like how you formulate your sentences/flashcards etc

However, If your method works for you then it is great.
1 x

User avatar
lingua
Blue Belt
Posts: 951
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:23 pm
Languages: English (N)
Maintaining: italiano (B2/C1ish)
Studying: português, Latina
Dabbling: siciliano, Deutsch, français, piemontèis
Abandoned: ไทย, español
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=12257
x 2024

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby lingua » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:31 pm

I chose: Some - targeted at specifics (self created cards)

When I took Italian classes I never used flash cards or SRS software but I did write all of the vocabulary words for each chapter in our textbook multiple times until they stuck. I also wrote out verb conjugations (especially the irregular ones) until I remembered them. Partly I did this because we had quizzes every week so I had a strong need to know them. It was still a type of repetition though the "spacing" was based on what I needed.

When I joined this site back in 2016 I learned about Memrise and Anki as well as many other language learning sites so I started using Memrise. I used it quite a bit up until this year. Originally I used some of the available user created courses but eventually started making my own courses so I could focus on what I was trying to learn at a given time. Earlier this year I started feeling like the amount of time spent vs the benefit received was too high so I've pretty much quit using it outside of periodic review. I also thought I was using Memrise and Clozemaster as a lazy crutch to study because of being tired a lot in the evenings and not feeling like doing more challenging work.

I think SRS can still be useful and I may return to it with Portuguese for improving my spelling skills which aren't very good at the moment. I often forget the accents and other symbols. I don't think your level in the language matters as you can create whatever it is you need at the moment.
1 x
Super Challenge 2022-23:
DE: books: 0 / 2500 film: 1654 / 4500
IT: books: 3065 / 5000 film: 5031 / 9000
PT: books: 2921 / 5000 film: 5010 / 9000

Output Challenge 2023:
IT: write: 0 / 50000 record: 84 / 3000
PT: write: 0 / 50000 record: 0 / 3000

PT: Read 100 books: 28 / 100

User avatar
einzelne
Blue Belt
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:33 pm
Languages: Russan (N), English (Working knowledge), French (Reading), German (Reading), Italian (Reading on Kindle)
x 2882

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby einzelne » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:37 pm

german2k01 wrote:But how do you actually know you still retain/remember them?


Rough estimates on the number of highlighted words/expressions in my book/ebooks I went through it (in French and German it was definitely larger, since I started to reviewed vocabulary at an earlier stage).
0 x

User avatar
Ogrim
Brown Belt
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:29 am
Location: Alsace, France
Languages: Norwegian (N) English (C2), French (C2), Spanish (C2), German (B2), Romansh (B2), Italian (B2), Catalan (B2), Russian (B1), Latin (B2), Dutch (B1), Croatian (A2), Arabic (on hold), Ancient Greek (learning), Romanian (on hold)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?t=873
x 4169

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby Ogrim » Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:42 pm

german2k01 wrote:How do you review those wordlists? Just on the lighter side, have you bought an extra space in your room just for stacking those vocabulary notebooks in it?


The way I review the lists hasn't changed much in 40 years or so: I make two columns, the L2 word on the left and the L1 word on the right. Then I review the lists by covering up on half of the other. First I start covering the L1 columns to see what I remember of the translation/meaning I have written down, I will do this a few times. Then I cover the L2 column and try to see if I can remember the L2 word. I would normally do 40-50 words at a time and would repeat the exercise over the course of a week while of course adding new words every day. So essentially it is not that different from an SRS, it is just the medium that is different, and the fact that I think writing by hand helps memorising faster.

As for notebooks, yes, I used to have a lot of those, but since I got an electronic note-taking device I do all my (hand)writing there, and in any case I don't see much sense in keeping notebooks once you've basically mastered the vocabulary - just like I guess you delete your Anki cards once you think you master the words. :)
3 x
Ich grolle nicht

User avatar
AllSubNoDub
Orange Belt
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:44 pm
Languages: English (N)
Speaks: Spanish (B1+), German (B2 dormant)
Learns: Japanese (Kanji only)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=17191
x 475

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby AllSubNoDub » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:04 pm

I use SRS and I write the words down as I review them. Not sure why they should be mutually exclusive. I use the SRS as just that: a means to space and track the reviews, not a means of "how" I review them.

Also, I see the algorithm seems to be the most maligned thing about SRS from those who don't like SRS. As I've said, it's completely adjustable. An SRS is nothing more than an automatic scheduler at its core. It just happens to keep very useful stats and have really handy add-ons, e.g. automatic pronunciation available for the readings and tone/pitch of Chinese/Japanese characters. Can also add audio, pictures, etc. These are things a notebook simply cannot do. It also conveniently fits entirely in my pocket and automatically backs up.
1 x

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2354
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14194

Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby iguanamon » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:35 pm

I don't use srs at any level. Like Ogrim, I take notes when I'm reading or when I hear an unfamiliar word. I try to figure the words out in context and write a "?" after my own definition if I think I can deduce its meaning- if not, I use my dictionary and write the definition in a note. This is for reading in languages that don't have a built-in kindle dictionary that I read in pdf for ease of note-taking- Catalan, Haitian Creole, Ladino, Kwéyòl Sint Lisien. I go over words at the end of a chapter or book a couple of times and move on. I generally see/hear them again, sometimes in the next page, book, podcast or video episode- in a different context. If it's a quite rare word I'm unlikely to use in speech or writing, I don't worry about it. This hasn't hurt me.
4 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests