SRS at Intermediate Level

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Do you use SRS software as a learning tool at the Intermediate level?

Yes - it's indispensable (must have)
16
39%
Some - targeted at specifics (self created cards)
17
41%
Some - generic decks (created by someone else, even if you edit some cards)
1
2%
No - I have better approaches
7
17%
 
Total votes: 41

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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby jackb » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:04 pm

I feel like the poll and a few of the posters are using SRS to mean Anki. A couple of the answers in the poll even use cards/decks. I think everyone uses space repetition, just not Anki (or other electronic flashcards systems). Some learners use reading as their SRS. Spacing out repetitions is a technique while flashcards are a tool that implement that technique, if at all.

I'm still in the intermediate stage, but I think targeting your study to address your weaknesses is always helpful regardless of how advanced you are.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby AllSubNoDub » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:31 pm

jackb wrote:I feel like the poll and a few of the posters are using SRS to mean Anki. A couple of the answers in the poll even use cards/decks. I think everyone uses space repetition, just not Anki (or other electronic flashcards systems). Some learners use reading as their SRS. Spacing out repetitions is a technique while flashcards are a tool that implement that technique, if at all.

That's spaced repetition, but hardly a system (or software, depending on one's interpretation of the terminal 's').
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby einzelne » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:59 pm

Well, to be fair, the word 'System' doesn't necessarily imply that this will the most effective way to learn/review words.
I have my own inner rhythms, affected by internal and external factors. No super-algorithm can crack or accommodate them.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby tractor » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:03 pm

I've tried Anki, but I found creating the cards a very tedious task, so I'm using pen and paper instead, just like I did 35 years ago. Two columns on a sheet of paper.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby AllSubNoDub » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:12 pm

einzelne wrote:Well, to be fair, the word 'System' doesn't necessarily imply that this will the most effective way to learn/review words.
I have my own inner rhythms, affected by internal and external factors. No super-algorithm can crack or accommodate them.

This sounds very enigmatic lol.

I would wager a bet that those who are against SRS altogether have not tried to learn a logographic language, have tried and failed, or have only reached an extremely basic reading level at most. Sure, people have managed to reach respectable levels in the past, but these were basically sinologists, people who dedicated their lives to solely that language (let alone piling several others on top, as is the trend here) or people who lived in the country for years and forced to adapt in order to survive.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby einzelne » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:36 pm

AllSubNoDub wrote:This sounds very enigmatic lol.


No, I'm talking about simple things.
You had a sleepless night — the algorithm doesn't know it. Sudden change of plans because of your family — the algorithm cannot accommodate it. You want to review quickly a vocabulary for a specific book — you cannot do it. Unless you thought about in advance. But then there are so many things you wish you planned in advance....

I'm talking a simple thing. If Anki were that easy to adjust to your own personal needs, then we wouldn't see the endless list of posts of how to fine-tune it so you won't get the infamous Anki burnout.

So, yes. I prefer to write translations on the margin (and flip through thebook), or to generate lists or a stack of Quizlet cards and review them according to my own review schedule (which rather flexible) which has nothing to do with the default Anki or Supermemo algorithm. It doesn't make it less of a system.

I didn't study logographic languages that's true. But I imagine I would use the same technique.

To repeat my point. I'm not against Anki per se. But it's a fact that it doesn't work for a lot of people.
You need to repeat new material regularly. But repeating regularly - doesn't mean by using SRS only.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby luke » Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:42 pm

einzelne wrote:I have my own inner rhythms, affected by internal and external factors. No super-algorithm can crack or accommodate them.

If someone is looking to get you a gift and you don't know what you want, and they want to do something, consider a personalized T-shirt of coffee mug:

I have my own algorithms

Perhaps with a fitting graphic.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby AllSubNoDub » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:28 pm

einzelne wrote:
AllSubNoDub wrote:This sounds very enigmatic lol.


No, I'm talking about simple things.

I just meant you worded it in a very mysterious way. It made my laugh, I liked it.

einzelne wrote:You had a sleepless night — the algorithm doesn't know it. Sudden change of plans because of your family — the algorithm cannot accommodate it.

I agree, this can be an issue. If I had an unrestful night's sleep, I tend to fail cards that I might not otherwise fail. There are many ways around this really, so it's not an issue for me.

einzelne wrote: You want to review quickly a vocabulary for a specific book — you cannot do it. Unless you thought about in advance. But then there are so many things you wish you planned in advance....

This is false. I always put all my decks in separate decks/subdecks. For instance, for Harry Potter 2, I have a subdeck under "Spanish" called "HP2". Then I have a subdeck for each chapter in the book under "HP2". It doesn't really require planning, it's just the system I naturally came to as I tweaked the tool and the cards to suit my needs. Alternatively, tags can be used. I have decks that have nothing to do with language learning. I can review them any time I want.

einzelne wrote:I'm talking a simple thing. If Anki were that easy to adjust to your own personal needs, then we wouldn't see the endless list of posts of how to fine-tune it so you won't get the infamous Anki burnout.

People get burned out on language learning, not necessarily Anki. Anki kind of forces you to study every day. I would say nearly any tool or method in language learning worth its salt requires daily use if you hope to progress in the language. Anyway, I just can't really identify with people that can't work with the language every day but expect results. Maybe I'm just built different.

einzelne wrote:So, yes. I prefer to write translations on the margin (and flip through thebook), or to generate lists or a stack of Quizlet cards and review them according to my own review schedule (which rather flexible) which has nothing to do with the default Anki or Supermemo algorithm. It doesn't make it less of a system.

That comment wasn't in response to you. Quizlet is a system.

einzelne wrote:I didn't study logographic languages that's true. But I imagine I would use the same technique.

If you ever choose to do so, you will immediately realize why the overwhelming majority of advanced learners use it.

einzelne wrote:To repeat my point. I'm not against Anki per se. But it's a fact that it doesn't work for a lot of people.

Ok, I don't disagree. But I also think most of the people for whom "it doesn't work", have not actually tried to make it work for them. This could mean algorithm changes, card-type changes, etc. Like I said, it's just a scheduler so you're not stuck reviewing randomly (either too soon or too late). Many of the downsides you presented are simply due to using default settings and not adapting the tool to best work for you.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby jackb » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:34 am

That comment wasn't in response to you. Quizlet is a system.


But the last I checked, Quizlet doesn't have SRS. The only way to add SRS to Quizlet is to do it manually. If you use the smallwhite spreadsheet method and manually schedule reviews you are using SRS, but not Anki. If the OP means Anki, then they should just say Anki.
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Re: SRS at Intermediate Level

Postby AllSubNoDub » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:06 am

jackb wrote:
That comment wasn't in response to you. Quizlet is a system.


But the last I checked, Quizlet doesn't have SRS. The only way to add SRS to Quizlet is to do it manually. If you use the smallwhite spreadsheet method and manually schedule reviews you are using SRS, but not Anki. If the OP means Anki, then they should just say Anki.

What you described sounds like a clunky, more involved version of what Anki does (and other SRS's). Whether you use an "off the shelf" one or one you made yourself (like Khatzumoto did), the end result is the same. Not sure why it would matter.
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