Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby Yunus39 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:37 am

Kraut wrote:I memorize mini-stories, but it takes a while to get them into long-term memory.

I do bidirectional translation and memorize at the same time. Visualizing scenes is very important.

Here I describe the method a bit

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 1&start=80

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=320

I'm under no pressure and do it slowly - a quarter of an hour/half an hour per session. The follwing text took me about two weeks in this rythm to reach 100 per cent correctness - or almost. I can hold it in my memory for about three days and then it starts fading, but comes back completely when I do repetitions.

https://www.tripadvisor.es/ShowUserRevi ... lucia.html

This is what my bidirectional sheet looks like:


Thanks!
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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby Yunus39 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:39 am

Carmody wrote:The Illiad was of course always recited from memory. I always though it would be great to memorize that....

Yeah! I have memorized about 20 pages of a religious text before, but that's a longer project. I was hoping to have more time to prepare for the exam but exam dates kept getting shifted for Covid and I ended up taking the test three months earlier than I thought I would.
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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby Yunus39 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:42 am

Steve wrote:I've not done this in many years (since doing acting in HS plays), but this is how I would approach it if I had to do something like that now. This leans heavily on how I've learned how to learn over the years in a way that works good for me. Your mileage will vary.

I'd first write it out and record it. If I could find a native speaker (whose voice I liked), I'd try to get a native recording. If not, I'd do it myself after reading and re-reading out loud enough times to sound semi-fluent. Rather than initially working word by word and phrase by phrase, I'd start with listening at a sentence and paragraph level to let my brain become familiar with the overall structure of the entire story. The main thing is getting my brain used to the sections and main thoughts to express. I'd do a combination of LR, L, chorusing/shadowing, R, etc. as to what seemed to be doing the most. I'd then go back to individual phrases to fine tune them.

I have an above average memory, but I find I have a problem practicing in a repetitive word by word and phrase by phrase manner to remember something. The memory structure formed in my brain ends up like a train with each car connected to the next. I'm always running on the edge of disaster where each link between each pair of words or phrases is a place where it might come uncoupled and I lose where I am at. I find I can make rapid initial progress memorizing this way (as well as subjectively feel like I'm making progress word by word), but then I end up having to find all the places I hesitate or get lost which becomes much more work. It renders me more susceptible to the inevitable brain freeze that can occur when stress levels spike during testing.

Working at paragraph level or so is more like learning a song to me. First time I hear it, I get the general structure and the catchy parts of the chorus. As I listen more, I remember more and more lyrics and the entire structure of the song becomes more and more familiar. Even if I don't know the lyrics at a point, I can hum along (or do a la-la-la) over words I forget but I still have an intuitive feeling where I'm at and know when the lyrics I can remember kick in. I also find that this allows me a fighting chance to improvise in places I cannot remember the exact words since I know what the main thought is at those points as well as knowing what direction I have to head to get back on track. Doing it this way, I find that individual words and phrases have more and stronger connections to the entire structure than only to the previous word. Brain freezes or gaps due to stress become more like when a blast of static on the radio kicks in but your brain can fill in the parts of the song that are inaudible since it is familiar with the song as a unit.

Again, this is how I've learned my brain tends to work. Other people's mileage will vary.

EDIT[I should clarify that I would spent much time in what is a repetitive phrase by phrase mode, but that is done in a way that fills in holes in the whole rather than adds cars to the train.]


Thanks, yeah this is similar with what I did for the first story this time around (though I also stored the content in a memory palace along the way, which helps you not get stuck). I memorized a page in about a week, but it took many hours (probably over 10 and I'm still reviewing daily). All of the stories I massaged with a native speaker first and have recordings of them telling the story.
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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby rdearman » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:37 am

You might want to ask the same question on "the art of memory" forum. Can't get link while on phone but you can Google it.
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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby Yunus39 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:01 am

rdearman wrote:You might want to ask the same question on "the art of memory" forum. Can't get link while on phone but you can Google it.

Thanks!
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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby Kraut » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:57 am

rdearman wrote:You might want to ask the same question on "the art of memory" forum. Can't get link while on phone but you can Google it.


In case you mean this:
https://universeofmemory.com/
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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby rdearman » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:18 am

Kraut wrote:
rdearman wrote:You might want to ask the same question on "the art of memory" forum. Can't get link while on phone but you can Google it.


In case you mean this:
https://universeofmemory.com/

Nope

https://artofmemory.com/
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Re: Best Way to Memorize Stories Verbatim

Postby Yunus39 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:08 am

Okay, update. I have the first part of my exam on the 14th. I have to tell the stories on the 21st. This exam was made by Bangladeshis and their education system values memorization and rote learning. 80% of the exam is about specific prepared content rather than what you can spontaneously produce. These stories are only 1/10th of the exam.

I have the first and second stories memorized and can riff off of and add details from that base. The third story is the longest, two full pages. I have a comic strip and can wing a passable version off the comic strip.

I have an alarm set to go off every hour from 9-5 until the 21st, and barring some meetings, I will tell one of the stories every time the alarm goes off.

What I specifically did is below:
__________________________________________
METHOD 1: Chunking and Memory Palace
Read the story and massage it with a language partner.
Create a simplified oral, spoken-language version in writing.
Create an audio of your language partner reading the story aloud.
Break that simplified version down into sentences and phrases and number them in a different document. The breaks should parallel the cadence of the audio. Each sentence or phrase should be 5-15 seconds in audio length.
Read the story along with the audio 25 times.
Take a 20-50 station memory palace document and added the phrases to each station of the memory palace. See Ron White and Anthony Metivier youtube channels for more on this. Metivier has a free course you can take.
I added an image tag that matched the phrase to each memory palace station. Usually this included a mnemonic for the first word of the sentence and a mnemonic for the content. As an example, the first station of my memory palace is the elevator outside of my door. The first word of the phrase is Ekdin, so I imagine my friend's son Dean in the elevator. The content of the first few sentences is about giving a test, so I imagine Dean holding a test.
I then edited the audio into tiny sound clips for each phrase or sentence (I use Audacity for file editing). These sound clips were numbered according to the document / memory palace.
I then recited the sentence along with the audio 25 times while imagining the content of that memory palace station. Sometimes I had to slow the audio clip down in order to do that. I used VLC player, clicked the "playback" menu and then clicked "Slower - Fine" until it was the appropriate speed.
I used a simple counter app on my phone to count the reps.
After that, I repeated the sentence/phrase without the audio 25 times while picturing the memory palace station. These 50 reps took about 10-15 minutes per clip.
If you are working on a longer or particularly hard phrase, add more pictures to your memory palace station. My early attempts at doing this featured far less rote memorization and far more mnemonics. This may have actually been faster, but it was not as good for my language learning.
After doing that for every sentence or phrase, I did 25 reps of reciting along with the audio of the entire story while running through the whole memory palace in my head.
Then I did 25 reps without the audio, checking the document if I got stuck.
This was grueling, and I was quite exhausted afterwards. So much so, that I think it made my efforts at learning the next two stories much more difficult even though the methods were less rigorous.

METHOD 2: First Letter and Memory Palace
(Same as above)
Read the story and massage it with a language partner.
Create a simplified oral, spoken-language version in writing.
Create an audio of your language partner reading the story aloud.
Break that simplified version down into sentences and phrases and number them in a different document. The breaks should parallel the cadence of the audio. Each sentence or phrase should be 5-15 seconds in audio length.
Read the story along with the audio 25 times.
Take a 20-50 station memory palace document and added the phrases to each station of the memory palace. (See above)
I then edited the audio into tiny sound clips for each phrase or sentence (I use Audacity for file editing). These sound clips were numbered according to the document / memory palace.
I repeated each clip 1-5 times with the audio then 10 times from short term memory.


Then I took the numbered document and deleted the word until only the letter of each word was present. I did not memorize the letters. I used this as a crutch to retell the story from memory. If I got stuck, I could look at the letter document. If I was still stuck, I could look at the memory palace document. If I was still stuck, I could look at the full document.
After it was easy to tell with the First Letter document, I started to tell it with the memory palace alone.

Here is what the first letter document looks like:

1. ঈ স অ প গ অ ল ত চ এ ভ ক।
2. ত য ন এ ই ন আ এ ঈ দ ত প উ উ হ প
3. ত ঈ ম ক “আ ম ম য। আ এ ত স ক
4. ত ঈ ত স চ
5. অ ল ঈ স স য এ ত চ ঠ ক।
6. স ভ ম এ স্ত্র ছ য ব ব ধ র র ভ।
7. স অ ড দ অ ট ক ক,
8. ক ভ ন হ ত অ আ খ হ।
9. ঈ খ শু স ভ ম ত চ স্প ক,
10. ক স ভ য ক ত ক স স্প ক প ত স ভ হ য।
11. ঈ চ স্প ক স স স বু য ত অ ভ হ গ
12. ঈ ত বু ত ম থ শ ব হ।
13. স ত ভ চ ত জ ক, “ক আ ক স্প ক?”
14. ত স ব, “আ ত দ ল আ চ ঠ ক,
15. আ আ ব, ক আ স্প ক?”
16. স স্ত্র ঈ প প এ স ব জ।
17. ঈ ত ব, “ম, তু ব ক ব সু হ।
18. শ চ য, ত আ এ ক ন হ।”
19. এ স ক ল এ য ব, “আ ম ম গ;
20. হু আ ক দ ন।”
21. এ ক শু ঈ য ব, “ভ ক ন, ক ব ক।”
22. ঈ ক প, ই ও ই ন য ব গ
23. আ দ অ গ হ া স অ ক ক।
24. ঈ ল ব, “আ ক গ ও ক ক? ম ম য ন, ঘু।” এ ক শু ল হ ক ল।
25. ত ঈ ত স ঘ থ ব য ব।
26. ত ম ম-ব এ ত স ন ঘ ঢু।
27. ঈ ম হ ধ ব, “খু, ও।”
28. আ ত ম উ গ এ ত খু আ হ গ।
29. এ ঘ ক ক ন ব জ ঈ ক হু দ
30. এ ম ক খ দ ব।

METHOD 3
(Same as above)
Read the story and massage it with a language partner.
Create a simplified oral, spoken-language version in writing.
Create an audio of your language partner reading the story aloud.
Break that simplified version down into sentences and phrases and number them in a different document. The breaks should parallel the cadence of the audio. Each sentence or phrase should be 5-15 seconds in audio length.
Read the story along with the audio 25 times.
Take a 20-50 station memory palace document and added the phrases to each station of the memory palace. (See above)
I then edited the audio into tiny sound clips for each phrase or sentence (I use Audacity for file editing). These sound clips were numbered according to the document / memory palace.

I then drew a 50 panel comic strip numbered according to the audio files and retold the story from the comic strip. I consulted the document and the audio recordings when I got stuck.

I will store the comic strip in a memory palace, if I find that I do not naturally remember it later. (It's already images, so I may not need a memory palace at all).

This was the longest story, and this is by far the least beautiful retelling, but the most honest as far as my language level.

I probably learned to use structures that came less naturally to me using the other methods as it forced me to repeat things in ways that I otherwise wouldn't choose to. This method (if 1. it ends up working and I can tell the story without the strip in front of me and 2. I pass that portion of the exam) was probably the best use of my time all things considered. Though I suspect I will be graded better on the other stories.
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