L-R vs Normal Reading

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german2k01
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L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby german2k01 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:54 pm

Hello Guys,

In terms of language acquisition and overall understanding of a book, which method is more efficient?
Read along with a book while listening to it or simply reading a book?
Just for the sake of having an argument, yes, I know learners can do both. I am more interested to know from the perspective of language acquisition. What are the pros and cons of each method?

Thanks
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby luke » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:21 pm

german2k01 wrote:In terms of language acquisition and overall understanding of a book, which method is more efficient?
Read along with a book while listening to it or simply reading a book?
Just for the sake of having an argument, yes, I know learners can do both. I am more interested to know from the perspective of language acquisition. What are the pros and cons of each method?

The L-R theory is that more EXPOSURE opens you up for more learning.

Two formulas for exposures with L-R:

1) exposure = words/minute * hours

So, more words per minute for longer time means more exposure.

2) The originator also used exposure in the context of L-R with L2/L2. If you can read the text in the target language and hear it at the same time and make sense of both, you're using 2 different TL skills at the same time and thereby getting more exposure - more engagement.

With L-R it's about enjoying what you're doing. If using both senses (visual/auditory) increases your enjoyment, then the theory seems quite reasonable.

But the world is not theory.

There are advantages to just reading. You can read at the that pace maximizes your understanding or enjoyment.

Just listening, you don't have the text as a crutch. That might get you to pay more attention to the audio.

So, optimize for fun and see if it's effective. The truths you discover yourself are more reliable than those that come second-hand.
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby Kraut » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:32 pm

The author of the Ear2Memory app
http://ear2memory.com
favours the listening-reading method. I have never used it and don't know any details, but I'm sure you'll find interesting arguments. The app and the manual are free.
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby denouement » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:36 am

german2k01 wrote:Hello Guys,

In terms of language acquisition and overall understanding of a book, which method is more efficient?
Read along with a book while listening to it or simply reading a book?
Just for the sake of having an argument, yes, I know learners can do both. I am more interested to know from the perspective of language acquisition. What are the pros and cons of each method?

Thanks


We need both listening skills and reading skills, so both are important. Doing both at the same time should mean practicing both skills at once, but it's also possible that we'll use one as a crutch to compensate for the other, so just watch out for that.

I haven't tried the higher steps of L-R yet, but from what I remember/understand the idea is that it involves multiple phases meant to counter how little we know of a fresh new language. With a fresh new language, we can listen to L2 and follow along with L2 text until we're able to match the syllables/phonemes we hear to the ones we see and vice versa. After we can read at the speed of speech (without much comprehension), we're starting to be comfortable with the sound system and it's time to start trying to comprehend what's heard by combining L2 audio with L1 text, using the text to understand what we hear. Gradually, we rely on the L1 text for this less and less and then it's time for L2 audio and L2 text. To recap: L2 audio/L2 text, then L2 audio and L1 text, then L2 audio and L2 text again.

It's unnecessary to keep listening and reading synchronized, but it's probably pretty efficient to use reading or listening skills to boost the other skill when they're starting to diverge. But they're always going to be distinct skills that can be targeted separately in more intermediate learners depending on their individual strengths and weaknesses, the quality of the materials available, etc. If I have a book with no audio, I'm not necessarily going to pass that book over for a book I also have the audiobook for, and likewise I'm not going to pass over an audiobook just because I can't find a text copy.
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:36 am

There are some projects focused on intercomprehension within language families, Romance languages, Germanic languages etc.

A method developed through these projects is 'seven sieves' where you use knowledge of regular changes between the languages (where they exist) to aid your deciphering of an unknown text.

Listening-Reading with two related lanugages, listening L2, reading L1 could help you become aware of any regular changes between the two languages.

e.g. Lerne weitere germanische Sprachen mit Hilfe der historischen Linguistik

---------
Listening L2 while Reading L2 would help you have a clear idea of pronunciation of the L2, which would help your listening and speaking skills as well as your reading.

Just reading is something one can do anywhere so it's an activity that's easier to fit into your day.

Just listening (to a text you will/have read) focuses your attention within a framework, the subject is not completely unknown, which should help your understanding.
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby RyanSmallwood » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:05 pm

Well L-R can help more with listening obviously, and I think for more difficult texts it helps get into them earlier, and for texts you like to re-read it may be more efficient for going through texts more extensively and picking up what's at your level.

For just reading on its own, I think when you have enough vocabulary to read at a decent pace, I think it can be more helpful because you can control the pace and focus in on the new words rather than just having them fly by. For texts that you don't want to re-read, I think it can help you get more out of your first read through, and there's an advantage to wanting to understand something for the first time and the pressure that adds to your brain to extract the meaning from the language itself, again as long as you're at the right level. Also I believe reading may transfer over to output better because you're sub-vocalizing when you read, so it gets you in the habit of producing sounds yourself.

I'd think L-R when you're still developing listening and texts are still very difficult, and regular reading with lookups when you have at least 95% vocabulary coverage (98% for extensive reading) and also want to transfer your comprehension to output. But so far I've focused mostly on listening or comprehension so maybe other people will have better advice on later stages and output.
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:56 pm

Just a thought. There are probably learners who find it difficult to read in a language with another script than their own. And then we have Chinese... In that context, the audio would actually help with reading, rather than the other way around. Same thing for people with reading disabilities (hence the book+CD combos at the local library).
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby leosmith » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:21 am

german2k01 wrote:In terms of language acquisition and overall understanding of a book, which method is more efficient? Read along with a book while listening to it or simply reading a book?
Is the text/audio L1 or L2? And are you talking about doing both straight through, no stopping, just one time?

These might seem like silly questions, because it seems like reading + audio will beat pure reading every time, but one can make some really impressive progress by, for example, reading with no audio, but looking up, memorizing, and reviewing every unknown word and grammar point.
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https://languagecrush.com/reading - try our free multi-language reading tool

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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby german2k01 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:16 pm

Is the text/audio L1 or L2? And are you talking about doing both straight through, no stopping, just one time?


I am only talking about the target language here. Audio is in the target language. Text is also in the target language. No involvement of any native language or translation. No stopping just one time.


These might seem like silly questions, because it seems like reading + audio will beat pure reading every time, but one can make some really impressive progress by, for example, reading with no audio, but looking up, memorizing, and reviewing every unknown word and grammar point.


I am hard-pressed for time to learn German. I have to choose one form of reading between these two which one will give more value for my time. For example, just based on my observation, any sort of "extra" medium (here listening to audio at the same time) prevents my subconscious mind to absorb and understand the language fully. Audio is too fast for my brain to decode sentences into "meaningful" ideas.
(The only advantage is, I am just hearing the sound as well of each word).

Conversely, today I read a book for three hours without listening to audio. Even though I had difficulty understanding certain sentences but I got this feeling I was getting the gist of the plot and my subconscious was being involved/immersed" in the language.

Even the author of the L-R method which I am not doing at the moment in its true form advocated for attaining a "flow" state which is very important for language acquisition. That's why I asked this question.
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Re: L-R vs Normal Reading

Postby leosmith » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:42 pm

german2k01 wrote:I am hard-pressed for time to learn German.

What are you going to use it for, and how much time do you have?
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