Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
darren
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:14 pm
Languages: English (N), French (B2)
x 37

Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby darren » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:03 pm

I've been studying French for 10 months and was assessed recently via an online test to be at an A2 level. That assessment seems to match my current day-to-day experiences: I can have basic conversations with my Italki tutors, I can read and understand the main points of French news articles (LeMonde Diplomatique) and listen to A2/B1 podcasts (InnerFrench) and understand all the main points. I watch French TV (Family Business, Lupin) series with French subtitles and probably am only missing some nuance, but I can following the plot along quite well.

Up to this point I have been mainly using Duolingo and Anki. I have studied grammar using Morton's book "English Grammar for Student's of French". I only started using Italki about two months ago, but I believe that it has been very instrumental in my recent progress. All told, I have probably around 300 hours of studying French at this point. I also use a small website that I built for myself to learn the most frequently used French words (It is free to use with no account needed. I'm happy to share the link but I understand that promoting sites is frowned upon in this forum).

As I get closer to "intermediate level" with my French learning, I'm revising my learning approach and plan for going from where I'm at now (~A2) to where I want to be at: a high B2 level, maybe B2/C1. I'm giving myself another almost full two years to get there - as I have a target milestone of vacationing in France in the Summer of 2023.

Looking ahead to my next year I am asserting that with 6-7 hours a week of studying using the following plan that I can go from A2 to a solid B1:

1. Two, one hour Italki sessions a week (different instructors) focusing on speaking and listening, with help on various grammatical structures
2. Continued use of my vocab tool (~5, 10 minutes a day)
3. Watching 1-2 hours of French TV a week and listening to an hour or so of French podcasts per week
4. Continued use of Anki for SRS memorization of vocab and grammar
5. Reading French magazines daily (I just subscribed to two monthly periodicals, "Le Monde Diplomatique" and "Detours en France" a French travel magazine).
6. Continued study and practice of grammar using a "Verb Tenses" workbook that I have, and working through Carnegie Mellon University's Online French I and French II courses (which I have access to given that I work at the university)

Is the above enough to move solidly into B1 territory in a year's time? That would be 600 hours cumulative study... but do you feel it is the "right" studying? Should I be looking at programs like Glossika or Pimsleur? The only "writing output" in my plan is the Verb Tenses workbook... is that enough? Will the above plan and approach, if I push forward another year after that, get me to high B2 by Summer 2023?

Any thoughts or feedback is appreciated, thank you.

-Darren
6 x

garyb
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1572
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:35 pm
Location: Scotland
Languages: Native: English
Advanced: Italian, French
Intermediate: Spanish
Beginner: German, Japanese
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1855
x 5992
Contact:

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby garyb » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:33 pm

I'm sure people will be happy to pick apart your plan and recommend their own personal favourite resources in place of some of your choices, but to me this seems like a very solid plan with a very realistic timeline so I can only encourage you to go for it!

I'd probably do more listening and less reading at this stage, but that's likely just my own preference and depends on your goals. As you get towards B1 and beyond you'll probably want to increase the input.

Pimsleur is probably too basic at your level unless you really feel a need to drill touristy expressions. I'm not familiar with Glossika. I quite like writing as a practice method as it really makes me think about how to express my thoughts in the language, although it's hard to say how much it really contributes to my progress and it's probably more useful at more advanced levels.
6 x

Kraut
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2599
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:37 pm
Languages: German (N)
French (C)
English (C)
Spanish (A2)
Lithuanian
x 3204

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby Kraut » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:15 pm

There's a method called "bidirectional translation" or "reverse translation" that is favoured by a lot of advanced learners. Olly Richards explains it here:

https://iwillteachyoualanguage.com/blog ... ranslation

I also quite like this guy's approach:
French Comprehensible Input
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZp0mF ... OA&index=5

Although I prefer heavy use of mother tongue when first meeting new vocabulary/structures, comprehensible input boosts long time consolidation.
1 x

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2352
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14187

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby iguanamon » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:37 pm

There are many paths to advancement. My advice is based on the path I have taken to improve my own languages, though I never chose to learn French. I once read somewhere that someone said the real learning of a language begins after the courses are finished. This has been my experience.

At A2, now is the time to start delving into the native materials you can handle at your level and a bit beyond. Programs and courses now, are less helpful. In other words, you need to start learning the language through the language, by reading, listening, speaking and writing. Though this phase does not come with an instruction book or hand-holding. It is doable on your own. I don't believe that limiting yourself to two or three hours a week of listening will serve you very well.

At A2, you should be able to handle the news. There are several podcasts from RFI's "Le journal en français facile" to NHK's French news from Japan. It's mostly international news. There is a transcript but you have to click on each article to read it while listening. I did this for Portuguese a long time ago. The newscast is dry as the desert but the vocabulary is varied, the presenters are consistent, and you can use the "transcript" in many ways. Doing this will expand your vocabulary and improve your listening. Make it (or another podcast you can handle at your level) a daily habit to really get the benefit.

There are courses at this level- "Assimil's Using French" and the "Grammaire Progresive du Français series should be helpful and level appropriate. Try not to get stuck squeezing all you can out of lower level courses. Combine Assimil UF and/or GPF with daily reading. Start writing. Continue speaking. Increase listening. Work with appropriate native materials- every day... and you should find yourself where you will want to be by next summer.

edited one word for clarity
Last edited by iguanamon on Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
11 x

User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 23120
Contact:

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby rdearman » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:42 pm

You might want to throw in some FSI drills. The FSI course for French is huge with lots of audio.
5 x
: 0 / 150 Read 150 books in 2024

My YouTube Channel
The Autodidactic Podcast
My Author's Newsletter

I post on this forum with mobile devices, so excuse short msgs and typos.

jeffers
Blue Belt
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
x 2774
Contact:

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby jeffers » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:11 am

In the "Introduce yourself" thread you wrote:
I want to be able to visit France and Quebec in the future and interact, with ease, with the locals that I meet. The "ease" of which I desire fits the description of the B2 level of "Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party."


That is one part of the description of B2, but there is a lot more to it. My question is, are you looking just for this ease of conversation? Or do you actually want to be "fully" B2? If the former, I think what you are doing already is an excellent plan. If the latter, than as you suggested you might want to start working on your writing. If you want to see a comprehensive list of level descriptors, here's the official set: https://rm.coe.int/cefr-descriptors-2020-/16809ed2c7, with 252 descriptors of B2!

If I were to add anything to what you are doing, I would suggest a lot more reading, but that is because I enjoy reading. I would suggest finding high volume things, short books at least, that you can really enjoy. For me, reading the books in the Petit Nicolas series have always been a pleasure. I personally find repeated readings of the same text quite helpful, as well as listening to an audiobook before or after reading the text. I listened to the audiobook of Le Petit Nicolas 3 or 4 times through before I started reading it.

And for a more controversial suggestion: have a look at the Assimil beginner course and see if the style of lesson interests you. Anyone B1 or below who hasn't worked through it would enjoy the course and benefit from the review it gives. The important thing is that it is centred around a substantial amount of text with audio, and even from the beginning it uses fairly natural structures even if quite simple at first. The final third of the course is definitely B1/B2 territory. Their Using French course is more of an intermediate course, but it doesn't have the charm of the first course, and left me cold. At the end of the day, you need things that will keep you interested and progressing.

Two further suggestions if you want to work specifically on your grammar:
1. If you want something for practicing verb forms, I've recently discovered https://www.linguno.com/ and I'm finding it very helpful to nail down those tricky forms.
2. A lot of us really find Kwiziq helpful. It covers French grammar pretty comprehensively, not just verbs. You can use it free for 10 quizzes per month, but with a paid subscription you can take unlimited quizzes. If it interests you, they offer a week's free trial once you take 5 quizzes on a free account. I'd suggest signing up, and then using the free trial as a week to really cram hard with it. If you like it a lot, subscribe for a while, otherwise it may still be helpful to take one quiz every three days or so on a free account.
6 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

rpg
Orange Belt
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:21 pm
Languages: English (N), Spanish (B2), French (B2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=8368
x 466

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby rpg » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:32 am

I think your plan and timeline sound very reasonable and that you should be able to continue making progress. I don't think you should be too worried or feel obligated to change anything just now. If you think something isn't working you can worry about changes at that point.
1 x
Super challenge 2020/21
French reading: 4534 / 5000      Spanish reading: 81 / 5000
French movies: 115 / 150       Spanish movies: 98 / 150

User avatar
IronMike
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2554
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 am
Location: Northern Virginia
Languages: Studying: Esperanto
Maintaining: nada
Tested:
BCS, 1+L/1+R (DLPT5, 2022)
Russian, 3/3 (DLPT5, 2022) 2+ (OPI, 2022)
German, 2L/1+R (DLPT5, 2021)
Italian, 1L/2R (DLPT IV, 2019)
Esperanto, C1 (KER skriba ekzameno, 2017)
Slovene, 2+L/3R (DLPT II in, yes, 1999)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5189
x 7265
Contact:

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby IronMike » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:26 am

iguanamon is being modest. Click on the link in his signature block. His multi-track approach might interest you. Like he and others said, you can integrate native materials now. Start small with Tweets. When I was working on German, I'd work on one paragraph of news from Deutsche Welle and translate it till I knew it well. I'd then listen to it, over and over, maybe 3-4 times, then re-listen to it several times while reading the paragraph. Add to this Youtube videos from actual Germans, maybe maybe maybe slowed down to 0.9x speed.
5 x
You're not a C1 (or B1 or whatever) if you haven't tested.
CEFR --> ILR/DLPT equivalencies
My swimming life.
My reading life.

Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
x 17565

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby Cavesa » Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:35 pm

An interesting thread and a lot of good ideas. I'd just like to address a few points:

1.Not trying to discourage you, but take online tests with a grain of salt. Especially if you've been doing mainly Duolingo, it is likely that you have some gaps and some weaker skills, so don't be too harsh with yourself, when you struggle with some stuff in the following phase. Also, take the number of hours not that seriously too. My favourite analogy to people using Duo for hundreds of ours: if you use a first grade maths books for several years and many hundreds of hours, you still won't get to the high school leaving exam level. Also, while I agree with Iguanamon that you might be ready for lots of native input at A2, many people are not and there is nothing wrong with that. If you prefer to be more ready first and tackle such stuff later, you won't miss out on much. The pressure to use tons of native input asap is rather strong in the online communities these days, but it is not the best way for everybody, there are more paths to success.

2.You use CEFR to define your following goals, B1, then B2, then perhaps C1. But you don't follow any CEFR oriented resource. That's weird. You avoid exactly the kind of stuff meant to lead you to exactly your goals (because even if I fully agree that no textbook covers everything, they are the best leads to make sure you don't have any important gaps at the level). Following one CEFR oriented resource should be part of your routine, given your goals. One of the good examples is the course series Édito, but there are other alternatives. It's even more important, if you want to use tutors, as those usually really struggle with making people progress efficiently, and are more likely to just keep running in circles in a confusing way.

3.Honestly, I am not sure 1-2 hours of input a week are gonna make a difference. It can't hurt, that's sure. But in my experience, it's better to tackle such media around B1, do binge watching and binge reading to get through the initial "wall", and then continue at a leisure pace. If you intend to do your 2 hours of TV for example in one afternoon, it's still ok. But contrary to popular belief, I think the absolutely worst way to go about such input is "a little bit every day", because it doesn't really leave you enough time to get immersed and focused. It becomes very useful only after the initial "focusing phase", which gets progressively shorter and shorter.
6 x

darren
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:14 pm
Languages: English (N), French (B2)
x 37

Re: Advice on my plan to go from A2 to B2 in French

Postby darren » Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:05 pm

I figured I'd post an update, since it has been almost a year exactly since I posted my original request on my plan to reach B2 in French.

So, I did it. I reached a B2 level, at least according to French placement test that my employer offers (I work for Carnegie Mellon University).

Here is basically what I ended up doing over the last year:
1. Two, one hour long Italki sessions week. I have now taking 115 in total since I started.
2. I read, a lot. Mainly advanced level native resources. "Le Monde Diplomatique" and the travel magazine that I mentioned. I've started reading books in French on my Kindle as well.
3. I watched a lot of TV shows in French and a few movies. All with French subtitles on. I'm at the point now where sometimes I don't even pay attention to the subtitles.
4. I listened to a lot of French podcast episodes, all targeted to the Intermediate level learner. This helped a lot with my listening skills.
5. I used Glossika almost every day and now am at around 38,000 reps. I'm not sure how much this is helping now, though.
6. I started watching French news and/or listening to French radio news, while I work. Sometimes three or four hours a day. These news programs are good because they repeat the same vignettes over and over, so if you watch long enough you get a chance to hear the same story multiple times.

What I didn't do:
1. Continue to use Anki for SRS. It just didn't stick.
14 x


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests