Material to start learning French?

Ask specific questions about your target languages. Beginner questions welcome!
Cocoa
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:43 pm
Languages: English - native
French - beginner A0
x 12

Material to start learning French?

Postby Cocoa » Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:41 pm

I would really appreciate input on what materials/sources I need to start learning French.

I was taught French at primary school, many many, many, years ago and recall simple words and phrases.
I have read through some of this forum and see that programmes that come up are Pimsleur, FSI, Assimil, and the Progressive text books. French in Action Youtube videos look good, however, having trouble finding the audio files to accompany workbooks.

Looking to spend approx 3 hours a day with a course - reading, writing, watching tv/news and listening to podcasts.

I can't get started because I don't know where to start. I work better to a plan and schedule.

My mind is in a muddle. What would you suggest?
0 x

User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 23125
Contact:

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby rdearman » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:41 pm

Start with FSI. It costs nothing and it starts easy with lots of drills. Then you can talk your time and look for more things. I would get assimil if you can. Those two resources will get you a long way.

Look at our resources in French here:

https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 19&t=2914/
6 x
: 0 / 150 Read 150 books in 2024

My YouTube Channel
The Autodidactic Podcast
My Author's Newsletter

I post on this forum with mobile devices, so excuse short msgs and typos.

User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
x 3631

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby luke » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:54 pm

Cocoa wrote:I would really appreciate input on what materials/sources I need to start learning French.

I have read through some of this forum and see that programmes that come up are Pimsleur, FSI, Assimil, and the Progressive text books. French in Action Youtube videos look good, however, having trouble finding the audio files to accompany workbooks.

Looking to spend approx 3 hours a day with a course - reading, writing, watching tv/news and listening to podcasts.

I can't get started because I don't know where to start. I work better to a plan and schedule.


The Assimil French courses have been very good, in my experience. You work at the pace of one lesson per day. One can spend anywhere from 10 - 60 minutes on a lesson, depending on how deeply you go into each lesson. Most people would generally spend between 15 and 30 minutes on a lesson.

One of the nice things about Assimil besides the lesson-a-day pace is that the lessons don't get a lot longer as the course progresses. Somewhat longer, but not like the Cortina course where the later lessons are much longer than the earlier ones. So with your, "I work better to a plan and schedule", Assimil fits nicely.

Inguamon has a recent post that suggested using both Pimsleur and Assimil at different parts of the day and some other helpful suggestions. That is great counsel, even if your target language is different than the person in https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 81#p190781

You mentioned watching some youtube. Including a component that is various simple French language targeted at beginners would help round your study out. Here, you might not have a "course", per se, but you could devote some extra time to listening, watching French that is targeted at someone learning the language.

It might be helpful if you said a bit more about how you like to spend time. I.E., like to read, or like to watch videos, or like music, or whatever. Also, if there's something that doesn't "float your boat", that would be good to know too.
Last edited by luke on Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
5 x
: 124 / 124 Cien años de soledad 20x
: 5479 / 5500 5500 pages - Reading
: 51 / 55 FSI Basic Spanish 3x
: 309 / 506 Camino a Macondo

DaveAgain
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:26 am
Languages: English (native), French & German (learning).
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... &start=200
x 4050

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby DaveAgain » Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:59 pm

I liked Assimil too. I think the best thing about it is it encourages a daily habit. (short lessons, day 1, day 2 etc).

That said, check your local library. In the UK you'll almost certainly be able to find a Teach Yourself Complete French course there.

The key thing being start with a course. Which ever one appeals to you, pick one and complete it.
7 x

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2353
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14191

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby iguanamon » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:11 pm

Cocoa wrote:I would really appreciate input on what materials/sources I need to start learning French. ...
I can't get started because I don't know where to start. I work better to a plan and schedule.
My mind is in a muddle. What would you suggest?

A few days ago, I wrote a post responding to someone with a similar need. So there's no need for me to repeat it here. I also wrote another post for beginners like yourself that will get you a good idea where to start- the multi-track approach.

To sum up, yes, Pimsleur and Assimil are complimentary. I will also say that despite it's hype and love here on the forum, Assimil has some faults. Myself, I find that it does not do a good job of teaching grammar. It also doesn't allow for sufficient repetition in my experience. Still, many people like the course for these very reasons. Both Assimil and Pimsleur teach grammar implicitly in a "grammar-lite approach". I think it would be a good idea to supplement your courses with a good basic grammar book. Also, there are many other options out there for courses with textbook and audio than Assimil. French in Action is a good course with textbooks and supplemental audio available.

The DLI Basic Courses are the best, most thorough courses I have ever done in any language. The DLI French Basic Course is old. It dates from the late 1960's. It is full of drills and these were very useful to me when I was learning Portuguese and Haitian Creole. There are still people alive today who learned to speak in that era. It is easy to expose one's self to more modern speech online. The basics remain the same.

There are a plethora of good resources available for French. Choose a course, or a couple of courses. Go through the courses consistently and persistently. Do them every day until you finish them. That's the plan. When I was learning, I did DLI and Pimsleur both at different times during the day. Despite the fact that they are teaching you different things at different times, this very situation provides good synergy. You'll hear something on Pimsleur and then at some point see/hear it again on DLI and it will make it more sticky in your mind.

Bonne chance !!!
7 x

jeffers
Blue Belt
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
x 2774
Contact:

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby jeffers » Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:57 pm

If I were starting French all over again, this is what I would do:

Start with Assimil and keep up a daily habit. However, whenever it starts to get difficult move back and review rather than pushing forward. A lot of people drop Assimil because they hit a wall at some point but believe they're "supposed to" keep moving forward. I don't really understand why Iguanamon says Assimil "doesn't allow for sufficient repetition in my experience". You can do as much or as little repitition as you need and like. When I worked through it I would take walks and both preview and review the audio lessons. I found it helpful to listen ahead a few lessons so that by the time I would start a lesson I would already have questions that needed answering. In addition, if I were starting from the beginning, I would also start practicing "shadowing" with Assimil from early on. What this means is you try to speak along while listening to the audio. At first you may need the text in hand while you do this, but it works quite well while walking as well (which is what I like to do). If you have the mp3 version of Assimil audio, the files have the text built in as lyrics so you can consult them as needed while on the go.

I would use Pimsleur from the start, and use it daily as well but with occasional breaks. Again, I find reviewing quite helpful. I got in the habit of completing five lessons, and then repeating those five before moving on. When I finished Pimsleur 1, I took a break for a few months from Pimsleur, then did a thorough review of Pimsleur 1 before starting on Pimsleur 2. One goal of Pimsleur is to build automaticity, so the more you can reuse them the better. Here in England many libraries have copies that you can borrow; my local libraries charge a small fee but it is a lot cheaper than buying them!

For working on grammar there are a few very good options. Hugo French in 3 Months gives a thorough overview of the basics and has been considered foundational by many learners. The Grammaire Progressive series could be another option, but I haven't used the one I own very much (not yet anyway!). Currently I am really enjoying working with Kwiziq, an online grammar course built around quizzing and studying. If I were doing it all over again, I would probably get three or four months into my main source of study before using one of these grammar options as a mean to review, consilidate, and answer those little questions that keep coming up.

Soon after you start you should get reading, watching and listening. How soon really depends on you, but I would probably try a bit of listening and/or watching from the start, and actually stuff designed for native speakers so that from the beginning I have a sense of what real spoken French sounds like. In the first few months it will sound like a slurry of sounds, but you will attune your ears to the rhythm, and more and more you will find yourself picking out bits you understand. I would do a small bit of "full on native" audio alongside audio for leaners such as podcasts (L'avis de Marie, Inner French) and easy readers with audio.


That is a big pile of suggestions, and I could keep going! But really what it seems you need to do is quickly find something you can work with and start using it every day. Then add other means of learning as you feel the need.

And don't try feel the need to stick to the timelines the courses give you. I don't know of anyone who has completed an Assimil course in the alloted time (100 days for a 100 lesson course), nor anyone who has completed a Hugo in 3 Months course in three months (although there are probably a few people who have). It is not a race! Most of us get to tricky bits, and the tendency is often to drop the course. I think the best option is that when the going gets tough, just move back and take some time to review and consolidate what you've already covered.


EDIT: I just read Iguanamon's excellent post linked above and it may seem like we're giving opposite advice when he says:
iguanamon wrote:You should remember not to expect perfection. Pimsleur talks about mastering 80% before moving on and I agree. Momentum and maintaining momentum are so very important in language-learning. I have seen a lot of beginners fail at language-learning because they stagnated trying to reach perfection and didn't move on. Those words and phrases will appear often enough throughout your courses to learn them. Also, try to keep the ball rolling. Try not to skip a week and come back. Try to do the courses every day.

However, I think we are actually advising the same thing but with a slightly different perspective. Keep working on your language, and don't give up. Don't expect perfection before moving on, because you will never move on. However, feel free to go back and review as you feel the need. There's a balance to be found, and it will be different for every person. You need to find the right balance that keeps you learning.
7 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

User avatar
luke
Brown Belt
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:09 pm
Languages: English (N). Spanish (intermediate), Esperanto (B1), French (intermediate but rusting)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16948
x 3631

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby luke » Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:55 pm

jeffers wrote:For working on grammar there are a few very good options. Hugo French in 3 Months gives a thorough overview of the basics and has been considered foundational by many learners.

I like Hugo French in 3 Months too. It gives a decent overview of grammar and there is audio and the lessons are, like Assimil, meant for day-at-a-time, which also fits in with the "plan and schedule" aspect of the original poster. Myself, I prefer Hugo to Pimsleur because it has the support of the text as well as audio and it does seem to cover grammar more methodically than Assimil, but not in a way that is burdensome.

On the FSI French front, the course I recommend starting with is the Phonology course: The Joy of FSI French Phonology

FSI French Phonology lessons are easy to split in 30 minute sessions, which is also supportive of the "plan and schedule" approach. Also, this course covers pronunciation, so one can skip Pimsleur, if one of the main goals on that track was pronunciation.

In summary, with that 3 hours per day the "plan and schedule" original poster mentioned, my course selection would be:

1) Assimil New French with Ease - 30 - 60 minutes with a preview and/or review session at some point in the day.
2) FSI French Phonology - 30 minutes at a time. Could do more than one session per day if time permits, but better not to push it.
3) Hugo French in 90 days. One lesson at a time, start each session with a review. If time is short, just review and don't worry about a new lesson that day.

When time is short, always get in some Assimil. When you want to sit down and study at the desk, do 30 minutes of FSI French Phonology. Then take a break when you have extra study time that day and do a Hugo lesson. Watch some youtube videos in French meant to teach beginners for fun.
Last edited by luke on Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:16 am, edited 4 times in total.
6 x

User avatar
lysi
Yellow Belt
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:34 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Languages: English (N), French, Mandarin (Beginner)
x 300

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby lysi » Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:57 pm

iguanamon wrote:The DLI Basic Courses are the best, most thorough courses I have ever done in any language. The DLI French Basic Course is old. It dates from the late 1960's. It is full of drills and these were very useful to me when I was learning Portuguese and Haitian Creole. There are still people alive today who learned to speak in that era. It is easy to expose one's self to more modern speech online. The basics remain the same.


I actually did the DLI French Basic Course (the textbook, not the actual DLI course in Monterey, California) and I can agree with it being a very good course. If I recall correctly it was intended to be used alongside classes at the DLI institute, just like FSI, but it can be used on its own just fine. People often conflate it with FSI, and they are similar, given that they are both audiolingual courses, but DLI isn't nearly as audiolingual as FSI. With FSI you get one dialogue, one story and one reading per unit, but with DLI you have like 2-3 dialogues and a reading every lesson, all fairly long. Because DLI lessons are far shorter than FSI units, there's like 80 lessons in DLI , so in the end you get far more actual contact with the language in DLI. Really, the fundamental difference is in the nature of the drills. FSI presents grammatical notes and then does "presentation drills", which are pretty useless, then does drills where you actually manipulate the sentences. DLI consists almost entirely of sentence manipulation and comprehension drills of a text. Although, all of this is based on my memory of both of the courses and a quick look over the DLI textbook again, so I could be wrong, but I agree that DLI is quite good. One of the problems with it is that the audio quality is often lacking; the audio will be far too quiet or cut out randomly or have static in it. It happens far more often with the later lessons.

The language in DLI (at least, in DLI French) isn't actually that old, in the sense that the formal, high register language is the same.
9 x

Cocoa
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:43 pm
Languages: English - native
French - beginner A0
x 12

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby Cocoa » Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:30 pm

Thank you everyone for your detailed responses - I really do appreciate it.

I think I will start with the DLI course. I will complete a few lessons and see how I get on with it for a few weeks before adding another programme. Then I will come back to your suggestions and see where I go from there.

Consistency seems to be the key so I need to make sure I can start and keep some routine of sorts going.


Off subject - I am new to this forum but have difficulties in login in to the form. It states that I have exceeded my tries to get in and keeps asking for my username and password and to enter a Captcha over and over again. Then out of the blue I get logged in. This has happened at least 6 times over 2 days.
One of the Captchas read 'If Harry, Carl's brother, is driving the bus and it has 20 people on the bus and 15 get on board, what is the bus driver's sister's name.

Well, I couldn't work out the answer. Someone please enlighten me.
2 x

User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 23125
Contact:

Re: Material to start learning French?

Postby rdearman » Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:32 pm

The answer is Carl. (I should change that question) we have had struggles with the login and logout for awhile. Ever since we moved to multiple servers and load balancing.
1 x
: 0 / 150 Read 150 books in 2024

My YouTube Channel
The Autodidactic Podcast
My Author's Newsletter

I post on this forum with mobile devices, so excuse short msgs and typos.


Return to “Practical Questions and Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dragon27 and 2 guests